http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-08T1 71212Z_01_RID850121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD.xml&rpc=22

Is it me, or is this clown just wanting to piss everyone off for the hell of it?

Here's the full article:

Iran president expresses doubt holocaust happened

By Paul Hughes

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday expressed doubt the Holocaust took place and suggested the Jewish state of Israel be moved to Europe.

His comments, reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency from a news conference he gave in the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, follow his call in October for Israel to be "wiped off the map," which sparked widespread international outrage.

The latest comments also provoked quick condemnation. German Chancellor Angela Merkel called them "totally unacceptable" and British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said "I condemn them unreservedly. They have no place in civilized political debate."

Ahmadinejad was quoted by IRNA as saying: "Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail."

"Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true, our question for the Europeans is: is the killing of innocent Jewish people by Hitler the reason for their support to the occupiers of Jerusalem?" he said.

"If the Europeans are honest they should give some of their provinces in Europe -- like in Germany, Austria or other countries -- to the Zionists and the Zionists can establish their state in Europe. You offer part of Europe and we will support it."

The Nazis killed some 6 million Jews during their 1933-1945 rule. Ahmadinejad's remarks drew swift rebukes from Israel and Washington.

ISRAEL, WASHINGTON RESPOND

Raanan Gissin, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, said in Tel Aviv Ahmadinejad was voicing "the consensus that exists in many circles in the Arab world that the Jewish people ... do not have the right to establish a Jewish, democratic state in their ancestral homeland."

"Just to remind Mr. Ahmadinejad, we've been here long before his ancestors were here," Gissin said. "Therefore, we have a birthright to be here in the land of our forefathers and to live here. Thank God we have the capability to deter and to prevent such a statement from becoming a reality."

Deputy U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli called the remarks "appalling and reprehensible."

"They certainly don't inspire hope among any of us in the international community that the government in Iran is prepared to engage as a responsible member of the community," he said.

A news conference with French President Jacques Chirac near Berlin, Merkel also said: "With our historical responsibility in mind, I can only say that we reject them (Ahmadinejad's comments) in the harshest possible terms.

"We will do everything to make it clear that Israel's right to existence is in no way endangered. I am firmly convinced that a majority in the international community has a similar opinion on this issue," she said. Chirac said he agreed completely.

Religious hardliners in Iran do not publicly deny the Holocaust occurred but say its scale has been exaggerated to justify the creation of Israel and continued Western support for it.

Close allies when Iran was ruled by the U.S.-backed Shah, Iran and Israel have become implacable foes since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution.

Israel accuses Iran of giving arms and funding to militant Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad and of building nuclear weapons. Iran denies the charges.

Tehran calls Israel a "terrorist state" and has developed missiles which can reach it. It says it would use them if Israel, itself believed to be nuclear armed, tried to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities.

(Additional reporting by Jeffrey Heller in Jerusalem)

So where did the 11 million people go?? The 6 million Jews, the Gypsies, the Poles, the homosexuals and mentally challenged, and anyone else that Hitler deemed inferior? What about the survivors? Did they have a shared hallucination? Did they all go out together, get drunk and tatoo numbers on their arms as a lark one day? What about the mass graves? What about the camps that still stand, with their ovens and gas chambers? What about the life work of men like Elie Wiesel and Simon Weisenthal?

This is honestly one of the most sickening things I've ever heard.

I have a strong hate in my heart for people who doubt the Holocaust happened, because of their complete stupidity.

and while were on the topic of the holocaust being fake :rolleyes: im amazed at all of the men, women, and children that they were able to convince to starve themselves to the point of having - 5% body fat just to take pictures to fool the world into believing

There are photos, maps, building plans, invoices, memos from the Nazi command, census information, Nazi officials' memoirs, and various other categories of data which all support the assertion that the Nazis actually intended to exterminate undesirables by the millions.

To say it didn't exist only implies part fanatical anti-semitism, and part, um, well I better not say.

When it is plain stupid, it stops being offensive and tends to get funny. That guy has made a thorough fool of himself by opening his mouth.

He did come to NY a few months ago, you guys should have smoked him and then ask for proof if he ever existed. Now that would've been great for us too. Wishful thinking.

Don't you know, it is the ever popular "ANA" (pro-anorexia) look!

Holocaust denial isn't limited to the lunatic fringe.

Errol Morris, the documentary film director who made the critically acclaimed The Thin Blue Line about an innocent man who spent about 15 years on death row in Texas before being freed, also did a documentry, MR. DEATH (1999), about Fred Leuchter.

Leuchter an American designer, builder, and repairman of electric chairs, gas chambers, and gallows, had a sterling reputation for his work and was hired by several different states to improve their means for legal executions.

In 1998 he visited Germany, studied the remains of the German concentration camps and concluded, based on the forensic evidence he was able to obtain at the various sites, that it was impossible for the holocaust to have taken place.

Umm... devil's advocate again...

People are missing the point. Iran knows the Holocaust happened. Their point is the Holocaust does not justify the creation of Israel. I've said this before- Israel was founded by Jewish terrorists who were supported by Western powers, mainly the US. The US gave Israel WWII surplus to fight its way into existence.

Let's be honest here, the only reason Israel exists is because of US intervention. This is the truth, not anti-Semitism. The fact is Israel did not actually fight their own war and win. European Jews flooded Palestine and through acts of violence and foreign corruption created a state out of foreigners.

Devils advocate… I’ll at least do that much to keep the conversation from becoming one sided.

Fair enough. Have you given up your home to a native-american indian yet?

Well, it is one thing to think Jewish people exploit the holocaust for their own benefit, another to influence and distort history to the point you deny facts. The holocaust involved more than just jewish people, but also homosexual, gyspy, and other victims- all deemed unfit for german society.

Ever read or heard of the Balfour Declaration? The drive for a homeland was in place a long time before the Holocaust. The Jewish assumption of a homeland began long before WWII, and by the start of the war, the Jewish population of Palestine was over 30%. The Holocaust, and the persecution that it revealed increased the migration, and we know what happened subsequently.

But guess what? It's the Israelis that I blame. Not Jews. Israelis. It's a world of difference.

Very possible Johnny, but again.....I think I can safely say that the Palestinian Arabs back in 1947 did get qiute shafted in such a major manner. I can't argue against that fact.

Thing is, unless someone out there has a time machine, debating and discussing what happened in that region 58 years ago is futile in the pursuit for a solution to the present situation to provide for a favorable future, of which we can do something about, unlike the many terrible events in the past.

Hitler was underrated. He kissed babies, improved health care, and was a man of the people. 6 million Jews? Come on! Where did this come from? Those photos you see of the starved Jews are just photos of Paris Hilton, Nicole Ritchie, and the Olsen twins. :rolleyes:

Sarcasm aside, I think anyone who denies this happened is a dunce.

Mad Johnny, my knowledge on this subject is VERY limited and probably fallible, but didn't the Palestinians allow the Jews their land, and only wanted to kick them out when their financial intellect made them more successful than expected? I can't remember where I learned this so correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am.

Umm, bold is mine... Yeah, that's pretty typical anti-semetism

How is that anti-Semitic? If anything it's a good thing. From what I remember hearing the majority had more savvy financial intellect and management, which is supposedly one of the reasons they persevered through the years without being crushed by a rival military. Again correct this if it's incorrect because I imagine the US involvement was more helpful.

This guy actually kind've reminds me of Hitler. How'd he get elected anyways?

He was elected because he won the vote.

Can someone refresh my memory: Is it in the USA a crime saying the holocaust didn't exist?
I know it's so in my country, you can go to jail/pay a fine if you deny the existence of the holocaust or if you support Hitler.

No. Read my post above about the Errol Morris documentary.
It could be considered anti-Semitic because it feeds and reinforces a sterotype, true or not.

Like saying Blacks make better athletes, or Irish people drink more.

or Italians kill people better.

Sorry, I couldn't help it. Please, don't stone me too bad! :p

Well, actually there's kind of a truth in it. It has something to do with fysionomy. Africans are often better athletes, but not in all sports.
An example: in long-distance running (10 kilometers, marathon), North/West Africans excel. It's because of how the behind of there ankle is build, that part of their body is more evolved than other people's.

This has something to do with Evolution, but since many people don't believe in Evolution, my post makes no sense.

Yeah, that's what they did!

Changing the subject slightly, it's one thing to deny the holocaust entirely... but what about those who dispute its scale? What about if an historian says that 5.5 million and not 6 million Jews were killed? What about if he says 3 million? At what point is someone a "dunce"? I only ask because in some counties (Germany) it's a criminal offence to deny the holocaust.

Of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's comments: Iran is an Islamic state and supports the Palestinian cause,. and the deep-seated hatred of the Israli state and Jews generally. If a European leader doubted the holocaust he would rightly be castigated, but coming from the President of Iran, it seems entirely uncontroversial. Wrong, of course, but not shocking considering its source.

Or that Italians are gangsters.


Don Cardi

I always learned that the Jewish financial stereotype came from the time of Jesus when the Jewish people were prodominantly coing exchangers. So people coming from other parts of the world had to exchange their 20 whatevers for the money of the area. But say 20 of their money equaled 10 of the money the Jewish people were exchanging, the Jewish would make them pay 40 for 10.

Yeah, that's what they did!
[/b][/quote]Instead of laughing on something I said I was probably mistaken in how about telling me what happened?

I'm sorry, but does it sound very likely that the Palestinians would have agreed to give up their homeland?

Here's a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel/History#Early_history_of_modern_Israel

And the relevant part:

In the age of Wikipedia there is no excuse for ignorance. Sorry!

This guy was one of the captors of the american hostages. He's an anti semetic slob. He better be careful that Isreal doesn't accidently drop a bomb on his house, the same way that Reagan did to Kadafy. The Iranian people should impeach his ass.


DS

Cool! Me and Smitty agree.

Impeach his ass? No no no...

He just needs a good kick in the ass!