Now that's irony

Certainly is. If that's for real that's one of the silliest things I've ever seen.

Are the Muslims that sensitive? There are always jokes and cartoons about Jesus, but you don't see Christians resorting to violent protest. If anyone has insight or understanding of the Muslim religion, please share your thoughts.

Try picturing what would have happened 600 years ago if anyone would do the same about Jesus. Heck, even when Beatles said they are more famous and loved than Jesus, there were protests against them, albeit more civilized.

Without condoning the way these idiots protest, you should know that they live somewhere around Christianity's Middle Ages, like in 15th century. It only takes time and evolution.

Try picturing what would have happened 600 years ago if anyone would do the same about Jesus. Heck, even when Beatles said they are more famous and loved than Jesus, there were protests against them, albeit more civilized.

Without condoning the way these idiots protest, you should know that they live somewhere around Christianity's Middle Ages, like in 15th century. It only takes time and evolution. [/b][/quote]I really like how a post about a certain Extremist Muslim faction's violent response to something, gets turned around and compared to the middle age Christians, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.

I appreciate that you are trying to point out that these Muslims may be living in the stone age, but I don't buy that excuse one bit anymore.

You can take many religions and many ethnic groups and find that somewhere in the history of that religion things were done to the extreme using violence, torture or killing. All religions are guilty of having extremist nuts.


But we are not talking about a small corner of the world here. We are talking about an extremist faction of the Muslim religion, that for the last 20 or 30 years seems to embrace violence and killing.

For a group who you claim are still living in the stone age, (And I know that you are not trying to make excuses for them because I know from past conversations between us how you despise those kind of fanatics), they sure knew how and know how to use the education systems, the technology and the finacial networks and institutions to advance their violence and hatred throughout the world.

FOOTNOTE :I don't think that it is fair to generalize and bunch ALL Muslims as being fanatics and extremists. Yes there seems to be many of them around the world, but it does not mean that all who practice the Islamic faith believe in what these other fantaics practice and believe.


Don Cardi

Why are we still calling these acts "Protests?" With threats of kidnapping and arsons going on, I would be more inclined to call them riots or terrorism. Protests denotes a peaceful gathering, which these acts certainly are not. I think it's time we call a spade a spade.

I responded MC's post. He said that Christians don't mind messing with Jesus, hence I used the comparison. My comparison is not bound to a certain place, but to a certain era. Islam is 1400 years old, so in my judgment I compared it to Christianity of 15th century.

Also, even when you compare things that have happened in our era, I believe that John Lennon apologized to Christians about his remarks to get around their boycott.

MC asked my opinion, so I gave it, I could care less about all of this anyway. I confess my religious backbone... wait, I've none.

Gee, these people are doing wonders to promote "peaceful" Islam:



:rolleyes:

Very true afsaneh ... but such sentiments are wholly out of place in the modern, tolerent West.

I am not one of those bores who insists that if "foreign types" want to come and live in "our country" that they should embrace all our culture and ideas. But if they do not accept certain fundamental facets of Western civilization - freedom of expression and tolerence of difference being among them - then they cannot be welcome.

Of course I recognize their right to protest against the publication of the cartoons than so offended them - but sentiments such as "Freedom go to Hell" suggest they are protesting at liberal society itself.

Man, this whole issue is getting out of hand. This culture rift will be the end of us all.

The Doc

TDWFL, I don't defend their violent or stupid way of protesting, whether here or out there. I only answered a question and compared these issues between the two specific religions that were mentioned.

Let's not forget, technology wouldn't elevate humanity, only makes people more dangerous. What actually elevates humanity is work of our intellectuals in the cultural matters. Enlightenment era and all the efforts that were put into the western culture to free minds of ordinary people from the dark side of the religion has not yet begun for Muslims. I believe every religion has to pass these eras and many thinkers have to come and contribute to the Enlightenment movement until people pass these phases. You can't give a person a cell phone and an ATM card and expect him to start having an open mind and be tolerant of other's opinions. These stuff have quite nothing to do with each other.

From the "Swedish Embassy In Flames" thread Originally posted by me:

"I completely agree with Don Larzano, The Good Doctor, DonFerro55 and dontomasso on this one. Although the caricatures/cartoons may have been in bad taste there is absolutely no excuse for the behaviour of a very small percentage of Muslims around the world from Palestine to Syria to Pakistan to the United Kingdom to wherever. I, personally was not offended by the cartoons http://www.brusseslsjournal.com/node/698 too much at all and actually thought that some of them were quite funny. I believe that freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of belief/religion, and all the other essential freedoms make Canada, The United States of America, The United Kingdom and other modern democracies across the Globe the best places in which to live. I also believe that these freedoms are not at all in conflict with Islam however they are in direct conflict with the idiotic behaviour of a very small percentage of Muslims who claim to speak for all of those who are members of the Faith. These idiotic morons will eventually be weeded out by natural selection and the world will then be able to breathe a huge sigh of relief.

As to whether the cartoons were offensive, although I was not personally offended obviously there were some who were but this does not excuse their behaviour whatsoever. In fact, in journalism, if you do not offend some people some times you are really doing shitty journalism. I'm not saying that these cartoons are the peak of eloquent journalism and that the Danes who made them deserve international journalistic awards for them or anything like that, but I think you get my point though.

Although their website has not been updated yet http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/ several members of The Muslim Canadian Congress have spoken out against the stupidity of the slow witted simpletons who are committing these moronic acts. Although I do not agree with all the political views of the leader of this organization (Mr. Tarek Fatah) I do believe that he and his group are most certainly on the right track. If you want to see what Muslims have to say about various issues and current events go to this site and that of Irshad Manji's http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/ and many others that are out there if you are willing to look, for the real deal.

Ahh, I think I'm gonna go eat some Danish liquorice, Danish beef hash, Danish roast pork with crackling, and Danish egg cake and wash it all down with a big bottle of Akavit with a Carlsberg or Tuborg chaser, then I'm gonna go on this site http://www.meetmeinto.com/search_results.asp?city=&sex=female&age_min=18&age_max =&body_type=&hair_colour=&nationality=Denmark&status=&sexuality=&pictures=Yes&Su bmit2=Submit and find me a nice Danish-Canadian chick!"

Fuck, man. When are people (Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Bahais, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Druze, Taoists, Agnostics, Atheists, Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, Canadians, Americans, British, White, Brown, Black, Yellow, Red, Human and Alien) gonna grow the hell up?!

afs,
Thanks for your honest response. I grasp the concept. Is there anyway to speed up 600 years of cultural/religious evolution? Please see my signature below.

Sorry, but those Embassy burnings basically turned me against those that were insulted by the cartoons. I mean, why the Finnish embassy as well?

You're welcome. It even sucks more when you have to live through such a period and I really don't think there is a way to make a revolutionary change over a night on cultural matters. Of course, things have changed a lot. Do you remember Selman Rushdie? At least in Iran no one had the guts to come and order the killing of those who created the cartoons, they just condemned the act and probably would go for boycott. If there was a way to revert the Fatwa of a dead mullah, they would do it to change their cold relationship with the GB. I think it was clever that many publications around EU reprinted those cartoons. Now they really wouldn't know who to boycott, because they simply can't boycott the whole EU.

Events like these can shape the cultural revolution, and make people to be more tolerant about these issues. These protests went down a hideous road and it will cost Muslims a great deal. Muslims would learn a lesson from that, as Iranian government learned a lesson from the Fatwa against Selman Rushdie.

You say that, but then you say:

Which to me looks like: we (Westerners) can be all nice and tolerent of Muslims but have no right to expect then to be tolerent of us!

If you give a person the personal liberty to practice his religion without interference from the state - something not guaranteed by Islamic regimes - then there is a very clear quid pro quo that that person shows tolerance of contrary views. They have to accept this now; the rest of the world cannot wait while Islam plays a 500 year game of catch up. I don't think Western civilization will last that long if the threats posed by radical Islam are not dealt with.

I don't understand why there were no Muslim protests after 9/11, London, Madrid, Bangkok, Casablanca or the murder on Theo Van Gogh in Holland.

These acts where done by people claiming to have commited them in the name of Allah.

How is that not an insult to this peace-loving religion when these innocent cartoons are?!

TDWFL, So didn't the police arrest those who were violently protesting? Why that guy is wearing a disguise in the first place? Wouldn't they be prosecuted, or be sent back home? That's how they'll be dealt with in the Western countries and I don't think I ever objected that.

Rest of the world wouldn't have that many options about the Middle East. It just has to take its slow movement toward self matured freedom, or you can bomb the heck out of, anyway you please.

No.

Apparently it is Met policy only to arrest white people. A white woman was arrested for reading a list of war dead in public; an elderly white man was arrested for heckling at a Labour Party conference; no Muslims are arrested for saying things like "The West will pay", "Behead those who insult the prophet" and "Europe is Cancer, Islam is the Answer" Funny old world eh.

Well, that's not my problem bro. I would very much like to see them sent back home, especially if they are from here. They at least deserve to live under ruling of Mullahs to see if this is the answer to all of their problems.

I entirely agree. If they hate freedom so much they should be right at home in the middle east.

The population of the UK is roughly 55 million. Of these 1.8 million are Muslim (approx 3.25%). The thing is that most of these 1.8 million people live in the big cities in Parliamentary constituencies that return a Labour MP...you can guess the rest.

I don't get what you mean Senza, I don't know jack about the UK's politics.

Well you don't want to upset people you think might vote for you do you??

Oh for FUCKS sake....3rd Dannish Embassy burned, this time in Iran.

Really, how can many of a group of people ask for tolerance from the West if they themselves aren't willing to practice it?

When two children are quarreling, the parents always say the eldest and most grown-up child must be wise and use his brains.

Too bad there are no parents with any power in this...

Fresh photos from the Wonderful World of Islam!

[img]http://el-muerte.student.utwente.nl/lba/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5401&d=1139253899[/img]
[img]http://el-muerte.student.utwente.nl/lba/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5402&d=1139253935[/img]

I guess we should be gearing up for the Crusades Part Deux, eh? :p

Please read the 12th post in this thread.

Fresh photos from the wonderful world of Christianity

Fresh photos from the wonderful world of Judiasm


[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:npg8T8NtvdPfaM:www.whatreallyhappened.com/apartheid.jpg[/img]