Is it me or are the words written in your example a little off base.

I kind of laughed at the part that reads: So I guess we can now call them "Helmets" (Without) or "Turtles" (with).


Hell, most of us have what we have. The choice was made for most of us before we even knew what the dam thing was. Most likely we think what we have is the best and the other way is wrong. Anyway, if that is your biggest problem in the world, more power to you.
By the way Geoff you are sounding more and more like a turtle to me.

I guess they didn't tell you that most American Doctors like to leave the foreskin on the smaller penis. They feel that the chap will need all the help they can get in the future when the ladies see that smaller member.
They like to remove the foreskin off the larger penis, because they don't want to scare the young ladies when they see the beast come out.

Exactly who am I potentially offending by any of these comments

Who am I offending here? The three-inch-long-ear-lobe crowd?

Are you saying that you wouldn't do anything about it if your baby was born that way?

So you wouldn't consider it a cosmetic problem then? You would let your kid go through life being called "Dumbo" or something?

Of course it would be a problem, and I don't see how anyone could possibly be offended by labeling it as such.

What possibly would be considered offensive about that?

If I said that someone got a nose job for cosmetic reasons, how could that be considered offensive?

That's my opinion, and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

If what makes that offensive is that I'm implying that many people are so shallow that the sight of an uncircumcised penis would turn them off, my apologies.


Who does that offend?

Seems to me that that is my problem, not my partner's.

Nothing for her to be offended about; at least no more so than if I was turned off by any other aspect of her sexuality, such as technique, for example.

I'm giving you an opinion based on what I believe that some, many, or most American women think.

I think that there are women to whom it would make no difference, and they would have relations with a man if he were circumcised or not, if that was a man with whom they wished to have relations, and that there are women who would care.

I suspect that there are not women who prefer an uncircumcised male, but if there are, they would not reject one who was.

But I also suspect that there are women who prefer that their male partner is circumcosed, and would reject one who wasn't.

Me personally? I couldn't care less. I have no interest whatsoever in looking at other men's penises.

Where did I say any of that?

As I said, I couldn't care less.

I don't know about that...I've heard many jokes over the years insinuating that British men are quite boring as lovers.

Not to mention at times a bit quick on the draw (if you know what I mean

Having nothing whatsoever to do with a little snip here & there...!!

Apple

It wouldn't be offensive. Because in most cases, a nose job is the choice of the person having it...and done in adulthood, at their own expense.

I think what JGeoff is trying to emphasize is that sometimes the parent chooses circumcision for their child, and not for religious or medical reasons, but simply because it would make their son's penis 'look better'.

Although I've personally never thought it was that big a deal, when presented in that light it can't be denied that it is little more than mutilation.

Apple

Where did I say any of that? [/b][/quote]Plaw, I think you missed my intent. You used abnormal ear lobes (and "radically different" female genetalia) as analogies. Therefore, you're implying that a foreskin is an abnormal deformity that's ridiculous and something that's repulsive enough to need cosmetic surgery. Is that not the definition of an analogy? A is like B? :rolleyes: :p

Of course I'd try to take care of any MAJOR abnormalities the best I could if I thought the child would have a healthier and better life. (That's a whole other topic there - how far should we go to help our babies? Genetic alterations to make them stronger and smarter and more handsome??) However, a foreskin is not an abnormality or something to be ashamed of - as we're all born that way, and 80% (and rising, probably) of men on earth retain them without any problems whatsoever.

The only "problem" may be a feeling of being a little different. Many people have that "problem" - minorities, gays, very short people, very tall people, very fat people, very skinny people, those with disabilities of some kind. These aren't "problems" to me. They're not something that needs to be "fixed" because it's not "normal."

Luckily this "problem" of feeling different is decreasing each decade. Few more decades and circumcised men will be the ones feeling different in the showers.

Which is it? Some, many, or most? How many people are you sticking up for with your argument? lol Read some of those links I posted on Page 1 -- one study said 7/8 of women preferred it because sex was better. :p

WHAT?? Because you don't like it than no one probably does? Huh??

I really don't think most women would care. There are plenty of other ways that a man can repulse a women besides this. :p

If you took a poll here, or in most of America, you might get a majority to agree with you, simply because that's how it's been here, that's what we're used to, and apparently, that's what we consider "not ugly." But this world is bigger than the U.S. (believe it or not), and circumcised men are in the minority overall.

Read some of those links, and you'll see what pointless torture it is.

I said some, many, or most because I really don't know.

I'm certain there are some, but I don't know how many.

And no, I don't think that there are no American women at all who prefer an uncircumcised penis, but I'd guess that thsat as a percentage it's tiny - under 1% maybe, while I'd bet that the reverse is close to maybe 50%.

As I said....all guesswork here, and we haven't heard from too many of the ladies.

And if we did, I have a feeling - again, I'm guessing - that if there were any who found the uncircumcised penis to be unappetizing (poor choice of words, I know), they might be hesitant to say so, since it does, after all, indicate a certain "shallowness" on their part, perhaps?

(I feel like I'm digging myself deeper and deeper into a hole here, and one of the ladies is gonna come along any minute and cover me with dirt)

For someone who doesn't seem to know anything...

...what could you possibly be basing such numbers on?

As I said, you're probably right that the number of American women (and perhaps gay men) would agree with you somewhat. So I wouldn't expect too many of the Americans here to post saying they love it.

But what about you European women? If circumcision is so much less common on your side of the pond, is an uncut penis considered as "repulsive" to you as it is to Plaw? ( ) (Especially after all that about uncut men being better lovers - is that true?)

Could this be it?

Projection
Psychology

1. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others
2. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.

Who woulda known Geoff would've fought so passionately for the rights of millions of penises around the country. :p

You are, and it ain't gonna be me.

However, it's been interesting to note throughout this thread that (my friend's story notwithstanding) you presume to speak for some, many, or most American women.

Even though you're guessing and really don't know.

Apple

What I really find interesting that I haven't seen many women on the board say much about it.

Usally they have comments about ever subject.

I have my own pole going on,( ) outside the board. I expect many answers from local women and a whole bunch from the ladies of Syracuse University. I think this may open some eyes after we hear from some of them. This may take a day or two, so be patient.

As far as preference, I would have to say that it would depend on whose penis it was. I don't think I would make a decision based on circumcised or not. If I really came to know and care for the man, I can't imagine that it would make any difference. I've been with Mr. Babe for almost a quarter of a century now (Gosh, that's just unbelievable), so I might be a bit out of the loop here, but I know that I was always far more attracted to what went on in the head attached to a man's shoulders. Getting to know the "little head" was always secondary. And when you do, it's usually dark, anyway.

I'll just dig myself in a bit deeper here, as long as no one seems to mind....

Unless your pollis beingconducted in total anonymity, I think that may will not give a truthful answer, since stating that they would care might be regarded as politically incorrect.

Also, you need to make the distinction in your results as to which answers come from women from cultures where circumcision is the norm, and which don't.

If you never found yourself with a man who was uncircumcised, though, you don't really know for sure exactly how you would react, do you?

So, the big question, SB......

Have you or haven't you?

And you too, Apple and TIS.

I say the "pole" or should I say the "poll"? Well, either way, the poll should include pictures of your poles. Then we can decide which one we prefer better.

In any case, this is a must routine here for baby boys, they usually get it over with right after they are born, and skin isn't that sensitive after a while as they grow, it is not like they've got it done yesterday.

I'd call it far from uncivilized and it is not all about beauty, since back in those days when the personal hygiene was not up to today's standard, this would've prevented a large percent of STDs and infections.

So it has remained a custom here, and I'm not sure I'm much against it. Parents decide and initiate lots of our habits and our way of lives. We can't tell vegan parents to give meat to their children, nor can we tell them if they should or shouldn't circumcise their children, when the outcome of the both customs has been proven to be safe.

Once again, you are ASSuming that it's so "abnormal" that it must be soooooooooo uncommon, how could a women have ever had an experience??

It must shock you to no end that 2/10 (American) men you know, and 4/10 boys you know, are physically whole/intact. In a decade or two, it'll be a majority.

But you practically ask how could a woman possibly have had any experience whatsoever with such loathsome deformed men!


Alas, you're probably right, though. No one's sticking up for my side of it. Maybe I'm just wrong thinking unnecessary mutilation of another (who can't decide for himself) is a violation of human rights and cruel. My bad. :p

Don't be too hard on me here.

The question was initially addresed to SB, who I know has been married and faithful (so she says, at least) for 25 years, so back in her wild days almost every guy probably had one.

And Apple & TIS, I'd guess, altho single today, are probably not exactly, um, hanging around with the younger generation.

But even if I was asking someone younger, I don't think that my question has the implication that you suggest it does.

(and if only 20% of American me today are "intact", that percentage isn't gonna shift to anywhwere near a majority in the next 20 years.

If there are presently, say 100 million men in the U.S., and 80 million are circumcised, and 20 million of them die die in the next 20 years, that will leave, 80 million, with 64 million circumcised.

And if they are replaced by 20 million, 16 million of whom are not circumcised, that will still live 68 million out of 100 million who are.)

And here I thought you stood up for human rights... :p

I'm not sure if I'm not a dyke, but the penis is overrated circumcised or uncircumcised. It really is not such a big deal guys. I know I'd settle with a guy without a penis if I love him.

Women love everything before the action better, or it might be just me.

Oh, Afs, thank you - that's so sweet!

Gee, JG, I was gonna ask you if you were circumcised or not.

Maybe that's the wrong question. :p

How far this human right thingy goes? Do we have to dictate to parent what they should or should not call their kids, if they should decide to remove their kid's appendix, make them have beauty surgery, keep a specified diet? It is a gray area. You'll be accustomed to the way you are raised and you will like it no matter what.

I'll answer that once I hear from some more women... :p

If you're not sure, you probably not.

Anyway, in a female homosexual relationship, the one referred to as the "dyke" generally would not.....

Never mind.

Medical surgery I have no problem with - why would anyone??

Personally, I also have no problem with parents raising their children vegan, or of some religion, or of some belief, or whatever -- because the person can always make up his own mind when he gets older. (Tho denying kids of Happy Meals at McDonalds should be considered cruel! )

But can removing 15+ square inches of skin from a defensless infant's body be reversed? Many have tried, through stretching apparatuses - but should they have to?

You can wear condoms, they make the organ insensitive as foreskin does. :p

But really, I don't think I should give opinion about this since I never had one.

And trust me, the way you've been raised is always present deep down. You hardly ever rebel against your customs, and if you do, the chances are high that you go back to the old routine. I've experienced this and I firmly believe in this. There is no way I put commas inside quotation mark, and I like American English better. Go figure...

Afs, my dear... this is backwards!

Circumsized men have less sensitivity because their glans are being worn down by being exposed to clothing all the time.

In fact, I actually disagree with the studies when they say that uncut men last longer - because if you're more sensitive, how could you not "finish" sooner?

But Afs, any time you wanna help with my study, you're welcome to come to NJ...

I was looking for passion and you want to study!

This penis thing is getting to you, isn't it?

Nah, not really... I couldn't care less... I was just trying to get into your pants all this time....