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Why did Sonny have to die? #15381
06/24/04 09:34 AM
06/24/04 09:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831
New Market, MD
DeathByClotheshanger Offline OP
Underboss
DeathByClotheshanger  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831
New Market, MD
Sonny’s death made for a great scene, but what was the point behind it? Carlo was contacted by Barzini to sell Sonny out and set him up, but what is the meaning behind killing him? IMO, all things were settled between the Corleone’s and Tattaglia’s. They tried to kill Vito, and while it was unsure if Vito would make it, the Corleone’s took out Bruno. All things should have been settled between them.

So if Barzini was the only one behind the killing, why was he? What did he have to gain from it? Sonny was hot for the Sollozzo deal and by killing him, he dashed his hopes to get the Corleone’s aboard - even though they eventually did.

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15382
06/24/04 10:08 AM
06/24/04 10:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 55
D
Don Rypcord Offline
Don Rypcord of the Ametrano Family
Don Rypcord  Offline
Don Rypcord of the Ametrano Family
D
Button
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 55
Personal vendetta maybe?

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15383
06/24/04 10:10 AM
06/24/04 10:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
There had been a 'war' going on ever since Michael killed Sollozzo & fled to Sicily. As a result of Santino's death the war was stopped and Vito Corleone made a deal. Without Sonny's murder this hitting/hitting back could've gone on for several more months.

As Vito says to Tom in the car, "Tataglia's a pimp. He never could've outfought Santino." Since Vito also figured out from that meeting that it was Barzini all along...looks like Barzini knew what he was doing when he set his sights on getting rid of Sonny.

Anyway, just on the basis of good storytelling...it would be quite unrealistic, quite unbelievable if at least ONE of Vito's children didn't suffer a violent death.

And by the way - Sonny was 'hot' for the Sollozzo deal when it was first presented to Vito. At this point, with his father having survived a shooting and his brother hiding out in Italy...I doubt he was hot for any kind of real 'business' ...which was basically what he told Tom:

T - We can't do business.
S - Well neither can they! Don't worry about it.
T - They don't have our over-head!
S - Please, don't worry about it!
T - We can't afford a stalemate!
S - Well, then, there ain't no more stalemate - I'm gonna end it by killin' that old bastard! I'm
gonna...kill...

T - Yeah, well you're getting a great reputation! - I hope you're enjoying it...

S - Well you just do what I tell you to do! Goddamn it! If I had a wartime consiglieri - a
Sicilian - I wouldn't be in this shape! Pop had Genco - look what I got.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15384
06/24/04 10:45 AM
06/24/04 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,719
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,719
AZ
As Apple said: as long as Vito breathed, Sonny was not only not going to make a deal, but would continue the war. Plus, Sonny was too dangerous to the other families to let live. By killing Sonny, Barzini/Tattaglia seriously weakened Vito's hand and hastened his compromise. And FFC no doubt had been mightily impressed with the "death by machine gun" ending of Arthur Penn's "Bonnie and Clyde," and wanted his own version in GF.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15385
06/24/04 11:53 AM
06/24/04 11:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
EnzoBaker Offline
Capo
EnzoBaker  Offline
Capo
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
I think the Tattaglia/Barzini axis didn't count on Vito returning to active duty - I think they figured he was more or less out of the picture, and by getting rid of Sonny they would be in effect decapitating the Corleone structure. Vito getting up out of his sickbed had to be a big surprise to them.

They probably figured that getting rid of Sonny would set off an intrafamily battle in the Corleone organization between the regimes of Tessio and Clemenza, thus neutralizing both of them.


"You did good."
Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15386
06/24/04 06:26 PM
06/24/04 06:26 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
I always saw it as a balance thing with Sonny. There is an eye for an eye policy in the Mafia, like in the last season of the Sopranos, Phil's brother's death only could be appeased by the death of Tony's cousin, Tony.

Although the Tattaglias were backing Solozzo, it's presumed, at least by this viewer, that Solozzo was fronting the deal and was the one responsible for the hit on Vito. It's implied that the Tattaglias backed the deal and Solozzo was the point man, hooking everything up cus he was the drug guy, so the negotiations and the hit were his doing on the surface. Although in actuality Tattaglia and Barzini were both behind the hit.

As per my Sopranos example, by killing Tony, Tony S. effectivly settled the score. By killing Solozzo the score likewise would have been settled. Although the Tattaglias backed Solozzo, the death of Bruno and Solozzo, especially Bruno, gave Tattaglia the right to go ahead and hit Sonny. This is elluded to in the boardroom scene when vito says "You lost a son, I lost a son". This is basically saying the score is even.

The hit on Bruno, caused by his hot headedness is what killed Sonny.

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15387
06/24/04 07:00 PM
06/24/04 07:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 581
Chicago
Busta Offline
Underboss
Busta  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 581
Chicago
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
And FFC no doubt had been mightily impressed with the "death by machine gun" ending of Arthur Penn's "Bonnie and Clyde," and wanted his own version in GF.
Well, unless Im mistaken, didnt Sonny die exactly the same way in the book? I think FFC was just going by what happened in the book and did a great job of making Puzo's words come to life.

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15388
06/25/04 04:22 PM
06/25/04 04:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone Offline
Underboss
Don Sonny Corleone  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
I think it was just a matter of kill your enemy before he kills you.


If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15389
06/25/04 05:13 PM
06/25/04 05:13 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
B
Boss_of_bosses Offline
Underboss
Boss_of_bosses  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
All the New York Families supported Sollozzo. But it was the Tattaglias who became close partners with Sollozzo's crew. And remember that it was Barzini people that killed sonny, Not tattaglia or other button men from another family.

What I always wondered without backing would Sollozzo had moved against the Don? If he did Sollozzo would have been a cornered Fox.

During the 5 Family war would you think it was the Corleones who did most of the senseless killings? I mean when ya think about it, sonny is a Hotheaded enough to order so many killings.

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15390
08/04/04 09:24 PM
08/04/04 09:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Michigan
tom_hagen_fan Offline
Wiseguy
tom_hagen_fan  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Michigan
I always thought they killed Sonny because he was unpredictable, which threatened business. By eliminating him, they, in a way, got a guarantee of getting Vito back with his level-headed judgement (not to mention political protection).

Sonny was always a threat to the stability the other families needed to profit from the drug trade.

And, as another poster had already mentioned, the worst case scenario would be that the Corleone family would self-destruct.

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15391
08/04/04 10:27 PM
08/04/04 10:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 47
The Lost Don Offline
Wiseguy
The Lost Don  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 47
Sonny Died because it was the only way the Barzini alliance could salvage a tie. The book goes into greater detail about the War, in the book it says that Sonny's tactics were slowly winning him the war and he weakend the otherside far more than his own despite his aggressive approach. The Barzini alliance could only save what little they had by throwing one final blow and that was to kill Sonny.

The Real reason Sonny died was because Mario Puzo wanted to further the story line and setup Michael's entrace to becoming the Don. Lets be honest we all wish everything was peaceful for the Corleones and that neither Fredo nor Sonny or the Don for that matter had died but then we would have no conflict and the Story would be boring.


"My offer is this........Nothing."
Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15392
08/05/04 12:02 PM
08/05/04 12:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 152
Sicily, NYC
Santino Felice Offline
Made Member
Santino Felice  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 152
Sicily, NYC
I have been asking myself this question for years.


"Well you just do what I tell you to do! Goddamn it! If I had a wartime consiglieri -- a
Sicilian -- I wouldn't be in this shape! Pop had Genco -- look what I got." - Sonny Corleone
Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15393
08/05/04 12:38 PM
08/05/04 12:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by The Lost Don:
...we all wish everything was peaceful for the Corleones and that neither Fredo nor Sonny or the Don for that matter had died but then we would have no conflict and the Story would be boring.
Story would be boring?

Without these deaths, the events leading up to them and what happens as a result of them...there would be NO story!

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15394
08/07/04 11:59 AM
08/07/04 11:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 41
PA
dragonwrangler95 Offline
Wiseguy
dragonwrangler95  Offline
Wiseguy
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 41
PA
Plus Micheal would not become Don

Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15395
08/07/04 03:06 PM
08/07/04 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone Offline
Underboss
Don Sonny Corleone  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Yeah that would just add to the realism of the whole story. Powerful Mafia Don lives peacefully with all his friends and family. Even in the middle of a full scale war,the Corleones remain untouched. rolleyes


If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15396
08/07/04 11:18 PM
08/07/04 11:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Mignon Offline
Mama Mig
Mignon  Offline
Mama Mig

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
I believe it was Carlo getting revenge when Sonny beat the crap out of him.


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12


Re: Why did Sonny have to die? #15397
08/08/04 12:42 AM
08/08/04 12:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 84
P
pgunn Offline
Button
pgunn  Offline
P
Button
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 84
Quote
Originally posted by The Lost Don:
Sonny Died because it was the only way the Barzini alliance could salvage a tie. The book goes into greater detail about the War, in the book it says that Sonny's tactics were slowly winning him the war and he weakend the otherside far more than his own despite his aggressive approach. The Barzini alliance could only save what little they had by throwing one final blow and that was to kill Sonny.

The Real reason Sonny died was because Mario Puzo wanted to further the story line and setup Michael's entrace to becoming the Don. Lets be honest we all wish everything was peaceful for the Corleones and that neither Fredo nor Sonny or the Don for that matter had died but then we would have no conflict and the Story would be boring.
Yes, on both points.

Mike couldn't reach his destiny, without Sonny out of the way. Sonny's death added to the purpose that Mike and the Don needed to act in this way.

Sonny was also inflicting damage on the rest of the Families with the war,as you said. Sonny was holding off the rest of the families himself, waiting for the Don to get well and take over. He also recognized that he was handicapped with his capos, with their prosperity, but he couldn't make a change. And he probably knew that Hagen wasn't a wartime consiglieri, but he couldn't make a change either.


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