Originally posted by Klydon1

I don't know of any national politicians calling the IRA freedom fighters although many, probably most, believe in a united, free Ireland (a sentiment voiced by George Washington)
Also, before you go around calling people scum, take a long hard look at the brutal legacy your country left in Ireland, India, etc.
Wake up Klydon. Try Long Island Congressman, Peter King, for starters -- until recently leading mouthpiece of the IRA in the US.

Isn't it strange how the American tune changes when you're confronted with terroism on your doorstep? In Britain we have had to live with IRA terroism for decades.

The Irish Republican Army have killed nearly 2000 people during the troubles, 700 + of whom were civilians, many Catholics. So, yes, the IRA are scum and I'll call them scum if I dam well want to. I have grown up during the 'Troubles' -- London has been under terroist threat for most of my life. NORAID are the leading IRA lobby group in the United States. They remain legal in your country despite the fact that the IRA has known links with terroist groups all over the world.

My message is simple. The USA must get its own house in order before it drags the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and other civillised nations into any more of its illegal wars.

One poster commented that since Iraq, the US has not suffered another Sept 11. Care to think of your allies, particularly the British and Spanish and the attacks on their capital cities by Al Qaeda scum? Am I allowed to call Al Qaeda scum, Klydon, or will I hurt their feelings?

Tomorow marks the anniversary of the London bombings.

London bombings July 7 2005 over 50 civillians dead
Madrid bombings March 11 2004 over 190 civillians dead

These horrendous acts were brought about by our involvement in America's illegal war in Iraq. You are feeding the monster that is Islamic extremism. Attempting to impose democracy on countries with no history of it is an act of monumental stupidity.

Wake up.

If only Cheney and Bush would understand this. Democracy should arise from the people of the country itself. Because then the people will defend the new democracy much harder than when it's imposed by someone else.

Look at Iraq. Democracy has been installed, but the population does nothing to defend it's democracy against those who benefit from sabotaging the democracy. That wouldn't be the case if the people installed it themself.

Originally posted by Klydon1

London bombings July 7 2005 over 50 civillians dead
Madrid bombings March 11 2004 over 190 civillians dead

These horrendous acts were brought about by our involvement in America's illegal war in Iraq. You are feeding the monster that is Islamic extremism. Attempting to impose democracy on countries with no history of it is an act of monumental stupidity.

Wake up. [/quote]That's the exact kind of response that Bin Laden was looking for when Al Qaeda carried out those attacks. I could hear him saying:

" Let's attack the UK and Spain, and in turn they'll blame the US and play right into our strategy."

And by what you've posted, you have played right into his hands.

Spain palyed right into his hands and pulled out after those attacks. And all it did was give Al Qaeda and Bin Laden better odds. It weakened our side a little bit and strengthened theirs a little bit.


It's almost like if you and I were good friends and a bunch of bullies attacked you. As a friend I come to your aid and stand by your side and fight those bullies along side you. But a few days later those bullies catch me alone and beat the shit out of me. Should I no longer stand by your side out of fear of getting beat up again by those bullies? Do I blame you for what those buliies did to me after I stood side by side and joined you in your fight? As good friends we stay united and we fight those bullies side by side. I don't let them beat you by allowing them to intimidate me becasue they attacked me as a result of my standing up for you. That is what they want. That is how they'll win. By dividing and then conquering.

I know that I would stand at your side, even after getting a beating or at the risk of getting another one. I wouldn't blame you for the beating that those bullies put on me because I took your side. And as long as we continued to stand side by side, those bullies would see our resolve and realize that no matter what they do, they cannot shake the common ground that we stand on and eventually we will defeat them.

So please, think about what you are saying. A bunch of cowardly bastards attacked your country and killed your citizens. And they did so because they despise the similar freedoms that we share and did so fully knowing that if we stay united as allies, then the odds of them defeating us become slim. But they also know that if they are successful in causing a division of the coalition, then their odds for defeating us will increase.

In Unity there is strength. And this is exactly why Bin Laden and his terrorists have tried and probably will continue to try and cause division amongst those who have banded together to fight against him and Al Qaeda. We must continue to stand together and show the bastards that no matter what strategy they try and no matter how much they try to divide us and cause division, we will continue to stand together and fight them.


Don Cardi

When the United States cleans its own house up, when the US gets serious about putting NORAID and other IRA fronts out of business, then I could take the US half seriously.

Until then the US should shut up and stop lecturing the world about democracy.

There is only one thing that has connected the dots up between Iraq and Al Qaeda: that is the 2003 invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq.

The United States should show France the proper respect it deserves for having confronted radical Islam at home and having banned the muslim headscarf and other religious symbols in public schools.

This is where the cultural war between the secular West and Islam must be fought first, on home soil. Getting tough on immigration and instituting schemes of repatriation for aliens. This, rather than the invasion of and radicalisation of a country -- Iraq -- that had nothing to do with September 11th. Now that country has been radicalised and the United States has planted the seed of Al Qaeda firmly in Iraq, probably for good. Way to go US -- how stupid can you get?

In Europe we have large Muslim populations, quite beyond the comprehension of many Americans; in recent polls some 10% are said to have been sympathetic to the July 7 2005 Al Qaeda bombings in my country. We in Europe face the consequences of America's war.

The world does not resolve around the United States; it just suffers the consequences.

The United States should show respect to a country who banned a religious freedom to it's Muslim people?

You see this is where you are misguided.

By making a remark like that one you obviously believe that we should be declaring a war on the Muslim religion as a whole. By saying that we should respect a nation who has banned a religious freedom to a whole religion of people tells me that you believe that ALL Muslims are no good. That's outrageous. The United States has not declared war on the Muslim people or it's religion. The fight is not and should not be against the Muslims or Islam as a whole. And anyone who believes that we should be fighting the Muslim religion as a whole by banning the wearing of headscarves or the wearing of religious symbols in public places is just as dangerous as those Islamic extremists who want to convert the world to radical Islam.


Don Cardi

Don Cardi,

You misunderstand the nature of Europe's problems with large Muslim populations, many of whom have failed to integrate into western life. The British government are showing great weakness in encouraging state-funded Muslim schools -- some of these devote half their days to reciting the Koran, learning it by rote.

The rise of Islam in Europe has major implications for, among other things, the equality and liberty of women. The suffragates and generation upon generation of women must not have fought battle upon battle for equal treatment with men only to lose now!

The British government is currently considering the integration of 'sharia' law into the British financial services regulatory system to 'accomodate' the Muslim way of life -- that is to say Muslim men who have multiple wives. Not I should stress the other way around!! The Islamic way of life is not compatible with that of a free, western, secular society where men and women are of equal status and must show each other equal respect.

I am sick of so-called conservatives sticking up for Islam; they are as guilty as the naive left.

France has a proud tradition of a secular state and of religion being kept out of the public realm. I only wish the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland could show similar bravery.

Government financed state schooling and allowing one to wear a relgious symbol on one's body are two totally different things. If the government is funding Muslim Schools, then by all means it either must fund other religious schools or cease funding ANY religious schools. I don't disagree with you there. However no government should ever be allowed to tell a person that they cannot wear a religious type symbol on thier own self. France's stopping the Muslim people from wearing their head coverings or their religious symbols is the same as telling a Jewish person that they cannot wear their Yalmukah on thier head or their star of David on their neck. It would be like banning a Christian from wearing a gold cross around their neck. I don't agree that a government has the right to stop a person from wearing their religious symbol on one's own self.

Now as for equality between Muslim men and woman, are you saying that the Muslims are not fair to their woman? That the woman are looked upon as not being equal to men?


Don Cardi

Is all of islam guilty?


ds

Well thats the first time I ever heard the conservatives being accused of going "soft" on Islam.

Henry Eurpoe's problem with Islam is totally self inflicted, and all of Europe is going to have to look to the model of the United States to solve the problem.

We are an entirely invented nation, and we have survived and prosepred because we have the ability to assimilate all kinds of people from everywhere on earth. We were a bit slow with the blacks, but the progress that has been made since 1964 is astonishingk, and in another generation or so there wont be much of a race problem. I do think we are making a serious mistake with Hispanic immigrants and I think we need to make English the official language so they are forced to assimilate like all the past immigant groups.

What Europe did was they tried to have it both ways. Germany brought in Turks, French brought in Algerians, you brought in Pakistanis, Spain brought in Morroccans and they did all the labor you didnt want to do, all the garbage, street cleaning etc. For the most part they were not assimilated, and now they live in ghettos. You have this Eurabia phenomenon going on and you are in for serious civil unrest unless you get these people to assimilate.

This is, by far, the most hilarious thread I've read here in quite some time. With the exception of one or two people (Cardi, you know who you are :p ), its all a bunch of running around in circles.

But please, do keep going. You're doing a fine job of keeping us entertained...I hope my counterparts like Apple and Plaw are doing the same.

"Thanks for the memories,"
Double-J

BTW - Henry Hill - I'd be very interested in a separate discussion of the IRA in its own thread, since it is a topic that doesn't get much attention here. I'd love to hear some more of your thoughts on the issues from your perspective.

Apple has gone AWOL, and PLaw is way out of your league.

If you are referring to me, my friend, I am troubled.

If the definition of a troll is someone articulating a different point of view than you are used to hearing, then I am guilty.

Otherwise, do be so kind as to refrain from personal insults.

I am campaiging in Ulster for a few days, but do look forward to resuming this debate next week when I will reply to all points raised.

What or who are you actually campaigning for?


Don Cardi

Then what are we spending all of this money on?

You're just full of cute little quips like those, aren't you? Do you make them up yourself? Do you do that for a living? You simply MUST tell me where you get your nails done..

Then what are we spending all of this money on? [/b][/quote]Mr. Tony Love. You have a bad habit of picking and choosing certain posts within a thread and then MISquoting people from thos posts. I suggest that in the future BEFORE you 'select' certain posts to MISquote, that instead you read all that's posted within a thread and THEN open your mouth.

If you had read all the posts,(which obviously you have not) you would have comprehended that what I posted was in repsonse to what DonTomasso posted. Here, I'll spell it out for you :

So I, Don Cardi, responded to his statement that "There is No War" with an arrogant response to HIS post


NOTICE THE ROLL EYES GRAEMLIN? It means that I DON'T Agree with what he said.

So you see I was actually disagreeing with his assertion that there is no war.

You continually make these little posts with these little reponses and quips and 99% of the time you misquote others because of your failure to read all of the posts in the thread.


So please, read everything first and try to comprehend BEFORE you MISquote others here.


Don Cardi

You're just full of cute little quips like those, aren't you? Do you make them up yourself? Do you do that for a living? You simply MUST tell me where you get your nails done.. [/b][/quote]Give that girl a standing ovation!


Way to go Bogey!



Don Cardi

Thanks for the explanation, DC. I could sense some sarcasm in the original post, but I checked anyway.

I didn't know I had a bad habit of doing that. I know I've done it a few times. Either way, I apologize for MISquoting you, DC. With a reputation like this, I could work for the press. Lets just stay cool, DC, I don't want to be like others who can't act like civilized people.

It's safe to say a worse habit than the one which I acquire would be the habit of starting these threads. What it all comes down to, is disagreement and anger between people who are supposed to get along. Geoff started these threads with the best intentions of having people get together globally, and discussing things they have in common, like an interest of the GF, or other movies of that genre.

Yet we get wrapped up in all these differences.

That's the thing about opinions, regardless of how you stand on an issue, you will never be right. Facts are the only things which are set in stone. Between opinion and facts, stand a thick cloud of haze called emotion.

I'm going to pack my bags and abandon this thread, because I'll admit I'm wrong, as I will always stand. And I'm going to try and avoid threads of this nature, as I recommend of others who post on these boards.

Life's too short.

Tony -

That is very brave of you to post an apology. And for what it's worth, I respect you for your honesty and for being as forthcoming as you've been here.

You're right about several things that you've said above, especially the part about life being too short.

Perhaps we all need a reminder once in a while that for the most part we've all joined these boards because we basically have the same interests.

So when we disagree on issues or items that arise, especially those of a political nature, we ALL must remember that even though we don't agree all the time, we must consider the views of others, learn from each other, keep in mind that none of us are always right or wrong, and most of all that we should always stay respectful towards one another and stay away from the personal attacks, name calling and pissing contests.

Yes, we all get passionate with our beliefs from time to time, but we need to step back every once in a while, as you've done and also have made me do here, and remember that we need to be civil towards each other.



Don Cardi

Amen to that!

Well spoken, DC.

No. Not at all. The intended recipient knows who he is.

In fact, I posted directly to you:

Best,
Double-J