I recently saw GF III on AMC and something occured to me. How many of you fell in love with a movie as a child, and viewed it again later in life only this time more aware of the flaws in the acting, plot, etc.? Mind you, I own the godfather box set, but before purchasing that I had only seen III once when I was young. I know this has been done to death, but when it comes to completing the trilogy, FFC and the powers that be went about it all wrong. I've never seen so many B-actors in one movie. Young Andy Garcia still has remnants of an accent, and seems to almost mock Sonny with his exaggerated manneurisms. Sofia Coppola is the most distracting weakness throughout the film, as it becomes more and more clear that she is the director's little girl. By the way, am I the only one who was nauseated by that snarl-face she seems to do? The actor who played Anthony looked like he should be working the soap opera circuit with those dramatic "I'll never work for you" moments. Lastly, and most sad and difficult for me to say, was Al Pacino's overall weak performance. Besides a few classic lines and the death of Mary scene, Pacino seemed bored and was already in his hoarse-yelling stage whereas in the first two films, he was so calm and soft-spoken. Also, I found the immobilaire sub-plot to be thouroughly boring and did not fit with the present themes of the movies. Anyway, I apologize for the length of my ranting but I feel we all got cheated when it came to completing the trilogy that needed no completion.

Pacino seemed bored and was already in his hoarse-yelling stage whereas in the first two films, he was so calm and soft-spoken. Also, I found the immobilaire sub-plot to be thouroughly boring and did not fit with the present themes of the movies...........i totally agree with you and couldnt of said it better myself

I think Pacino was really good. The best scenes of the movie are with Pacino and Keaton.

Pacino so calm and soft-spoken in the first two films? Did you forget the last scene of GFI when he told Kay "enough"? Did you forget the scene in GFII when he yelled at Tom for not directly answering his questions about Fredo and the "something else"?

Pacino, a weak performance? He could hail a taxi and it would surpass the acting of just about any other Hollywood star.

Vinnie's accent? What? Where? When?

Mocking Sonny? He was his kid. What kind of kid would you expect Sonny to have - a priest?

The Plot? It was taken right out of the late 70's headlines. The Vatican Bank scandal! Try reading the book "God's Banker". Immobiliare is a real company that does own real estate all over the world.

And Mary and Tony? Two kids the life about which we have no information, pretty much raised by their mother, with one of them knowing that their father murdered his brother. The kids did alright!

Pacino so calm and soft-spoken in the first two films? Did you forget the last scene of GFI when he told Kay "enough"? Did you forget the scene in GFII when he yelled at Tom for not directly answering his questions about Fredo and the "something else"?.....very good points very good. you mean when he finds out kay lost his baby.

I was just like you the first time I saw Part 3. I hated it with a passion. Gracia's cuban accent,Sophia in general,not to mention her acting,the plot that was impossible to follow, etc,etc. But the more times you watch it, it does get better. Granted, the Actor's Studio couldnt make Sophia a better actor, and nothing will change the fact that Michael acts more like Sonny that himself,you figure out the plot,you ignore Vinnie's accent, you focus on Michaels struggle to go legit despite it all.It will never be in the same class as 1 or 2, but you come to like it in a diffrent way.

yeah ive only seen it 2 times and i havent really sat down to study it but i have seen it begginning to end. i need to go buy it.

I like THE GODFATHER PART 3. I mean it isn't up to par with the first two installments, but consider now that Coppola in spirit I believe didn't want to make this movie. I mean part of his deal with Paramount Pictures for the studio to finance and distribute Coppola's good movie that was TUCKER, that FFC would do GODFATHER 3.

As for Sofia Coppola...well shes a better filmmaker than actress for sure.

But its real interesting that after Coppola had no interest to do GODFATHER 3 after the sucess of GODFATHER PART 2 in 1974, Paramount tried to make a GODFATHER 3 for like 15 years...including at one point having Sylester Stallone(!) set to write and direct it. Yeech!

I think what I hated most about GFIII was how far I felt it was moving from the family. I can understand Pacino's performance as being "soft spoken" as he was now OLD and SICK. What I could not stand is how Kay changed the kids into being so Americana - it's like she was the boss of the kids now and Michael had to surrender to her - hated that. I liked how everyone got together at the party to show "family" spirit, but I just felt sad that Michael's family had to turn out so crappy. I also liked how Connie cared for Michael - I felt that showed "family."

gf3 is a good film in my opinion,the ending is such a powerful and sad end to the trilogy,it was a shame they waited until 1990 to make gf3 as tecnology and actors from previous gf,s had passed away if gf3 had been made in the late 70's early 80,s it would have been up there with gf1,2.

I liked Part III. It wasn't an opus, yes, but it didn't suck. Part III is just misunderstood, I think. One of the things it didn't have going for it was the twenty year waiting period. You build up *that* amount of anticipation for the film, you're bound to disappoint a helluva lotta people.

Imagine George Lucas waiting for twenty years before releasing Return of the Jedi after Empire Strikes Back, or Return of the King coming out twenty years after The Two Towers.

Also, the film doesn't find its distinctive voice, which the first two did with such tragic grandeur and excellence. It didn't have the momentum.

And, yes, Pacino was nearing his Scent of A Woman, "Hoo-ha!" acting phase.

And that helicopter scene? Ay, carumba. Horrible.

Obviously the flaws of the third part are too many, and also discussed extensively. But here are some of the good ideas in part 3 (in no particular order)

1)Kay visiting Sicily
2)Don Tomasino
3)Flashback scenes of apollonia (and the recollection of women in michael's life)
4)Connie getting involved in the business.
5)Kay's thoughts that she was still in love with micheal though she dreaded him.

Although I do find Sofia horribly distracting (especially the Snarl Face mentioned earlier), there are many scenes that I love.

The "I dread you" scene is magnificent.
Almost any scene with Talia Shire.
Kay and Michael in Sicily.
The opera.
Michael's confession.
Michael kneeling at Don Tommasino's coffin. "Why were you so loved?".
Mary's death scene.

I agree - people's expectations were too high for this movie, but that's b/c FFC & Puzo made two unbeleivably great films in GF & GFII. Part III had nowhere to go but down and was doomed to be a disappointment for people expecting the standards of the first two to be maintained.

Although not nearly as good in comparison, look at "Silence of the Lambs." It took nearly over ten years from the time the book was released to the release of its sequel, "Hannibal." The latter was nowhere near is good because it lacked some of the finer details and little things that the first one possessed, much like GF/GF II vs. GF III.

I think GF3 is one of the best endings to a film you can get,pacino's scream when mary gets shot is so tragic.makes me weep everytime i see it, or is that just me.

just him and his thoughts at the end. what a way to go,

I love GF3 (not nearly as much as 1 and 2, but i do think it is great), and I can't tell you how much flak I get from people about it. I don't know one other person who says its a good film. Its almost "cool" to hate the film.

I think a movie regarding corruption in the church/Vatican, with mob involvement has to be good because it is such an evil combination.

Sofia's snarl - terribly annoying. As much as I don't like her character, I still get teary eyed when she dies at the end and Michael is holding her. Would you agree that was justice served to Michael for all his crimes and murders?

I haven't watched it in a while. I would love to watch it again soon, so I could post some questions here, because I know I had some questions last time I watched it.

Was it true that Eddie Murphy wanted a role in GF3 and would have done it for free? that was a rumour I heard many moons ago.

Thanks, ML

And what role would he have played.Can't imagine him in GF3

I also like gf3 yeah it was somethings wrong with
the movie history repeat and sofa did not act
but come on the end was the alone movie that every
made me cry and that gotta count for something.
yeah it could been better but what you gone do
every body was dead.

I think a lot of people will disagree about number 2 and 4 on your list there.

I find two decent ideas in GF3:
1. Michael having really big legit business
2. The fact of his confession.
Everything else, I must confess, insults my intelligence - and makes me very, VERY angry...

Eddie Murphy would've made a great consig...hey, Vito had the first Irish/German one, Michael could've had the first african-american.

Sorry for my rambling, had a lot of things in this post I wanted to comment on.

To comment on the Immobiliare plot line:
I do think it is very boring, I always found that sort of annoying when people did movies about big deals that the viewers never really knew all the details of. Although it was true, that doesn't make it interesting.

I personally hated Kay in this movie. I didnt think Diane Keaton had anything to do with that, Kay was just given such little to do and I found her and her plotlines (visiting Sicily, yea!!! ) very boring.

It seems to me like FFC just had a bunch of ideas concerning the Godfather that he wanted to use, and just sort of fabricated this story as an excuse to string them all togethor.

I do agree that this movie, while not nearly as good as the first two, is pretty good. despite all my complaints .

And I feel like the best thing about this movie is the ending. From the point where the film fades into the big Opera gateway in Sicily at night until the end, is, in my mind, one of the greatest film sequences ever created. In my mind, this film cannot compare to either of the other GF's, but the Opera Massacre sequence alone stands right along side the Baptism Murders sequence and the Hail Mary sequence at the end of GF I and II. FFC has a knack for wrapping things up quite nicely.

Although I feel like a better GFIII could have been made in the late 70's or early 80's as mentioned, this film is sufficient enough to appease my Godfather appetite.

And one question...

Is there any identifiable point in time in which Al Pacino switched from quiet-whispery guy to shouting, hoarse-voiced guy? I can't quite pinpoint the year or the film where this strange transition occured. The last Pacino film i've seen where he's still quiet is Scarface (1983), and then by GFIII (1990) he seems to have completely changed. anyone know the first film where he really seemed to have attained that raspy, guttural voice?

Even I have the same feeling, but I would have preferred if he used a better bunch of ideas.

But the other 2 endings were really short sequences. That's why I like them more. This one seemed to go on for ever.

I think even in Scarface, he tried to shout, but only he didn't have that low-frequency voice that he has today. By the time he acted in Scent of woman, he was at his peak of over-acting. And guess what he got oscar for that. And not GF1 and GF2.
OK I am running for cover

I saw The Godfather III yesterday, after at least 6 months, and I just wanted to delete all those 177 minutes of the movie and focus on the last 3 minutes: These last minutes were the real Godfather Part III. A culmination of the entire saga, with Michael reaching his most decisive moment: The death of the most beloved person in his world. After all these years of fighting with his enemies for his family and his own sake, this is what he gets as a reward for his sins. His scream makes us realize that his life was to be permanently destroyed and would mark his loneliness until the end of his days. This man's agony is real. That is why he dies surrounded by a couple of dogs in a crappy old villa. In those flashbacks, he is shown dancing with the most important women on his life, and all have been lost by him.

But if there was simple logic in anybody's actions, Mary would never die... Situation is so unbelieveably stupid that it cannot impress in the way it was meant to... Just my thought.
In my opinion, no comparison.
FFC was maybe so short of ideas that he thought if he uses once successful cliche "Today I settle all family business", it will work as well as it did. But it does not, more than that - because of likeness of endings the faults are more obvious.
When Michael settled his business, it was really formidable, frightening, and efficient, it made you feel creepy. In GF3 it is a kind of degeneration in everything, shallow and pitiful sight. To poke glasses into your enemies and feed them poisoned crackers - cmon, FFC was slippin'. Quite a laugh.
I think I heard that his voice changed in "Sea of Love", but I never saw this film. He was smoking too much

^^^^^Nah, from what Ive seen, around 83,84 (sea of Love was 1989)is when his voice really got raspy, but if you compare ...And Justice for All(1979) to The Godfather, his voice is getting pretty raspy there.

Two things in GF3 that are completely out of line are the romance between Vincent and Mary and Vincent's quick rise to power. Mike didn't even know him in the beginning of the movie and right away gives him control of the family? No way. And the romance thing sucks.

I agree with both of your points, but Vincent's rise is totally unacceptable. He was given the control of the Corleone Family simply for being in the right place at the right time.

If memory serves correct, Michael was under Vito's wing learning before assuming full control. For Michael to just give Vincent the power was out of character for Michael. My guess is that FFC just had designed Michael to be so intent to leave the illegitimate side that Michael didn't really care who took over (at least to some degree).

I had an odd experience with rewatching Part 3 this weekend...I settled down to watch it at 2 pm, knowing I had to pick up the missus at 5 pm. Since the dvd gave the running time as 169 minutes, I knew this would give me time to watch it.

But a few things came up, and by the end of the first hour it became obvious that if I was to see the film in one sitting, I would have to gain a few minutes by missing something out. And since the scene with Mary visiting Vincent at the club was coming up, I bliped past it. Thus I avoided all that rubbishy cod-love talk.

This had an odd effect, for as the film wore on I found Mary/Sophia less irritating than previous viewings. Moreover, I was eqully comfortable with Andy garcia - who previously I had never been terriblt enthusiastic about.

The result was that the film was immensely strengthened for the absence of these scenes.

Then I decided to experiment a little further - later that same evening I watched those club scenes in isolation. And I noticed that whilst Sophia comes in for a lot of fairly justified crticism for her performance, Garcia in these scenes is no better. Notice when rolling the pasta how his eyes are all over the place, rather than locked on the girl he's supposedly obsessively in love with ( although I do have a lot of time for the argument that Vincent is actually manipulating Mary in some way so perhaps Garcia is playing to that version of his character ). His confession of love is played in a a manner so inane that it rivals Hayden Christensen in " Attack of the Clones ".

Have a look yourselves - and next time, if you have the dvd, try flipping straight onto chapter 12 - that way you get straight on with the Joey Zasza hit.

Warmest regards

dave

Can't watch it, Dave. With or without the mushy Vincent/Mary scenes. The movie, to me, is so unbelievable that I can't get into it. That whole "cousins" thing is for the south and there is absolutely no friggin' way in hell that Michael turns over power to Vincent so easily. It just makes no sense.