I noticed many Americans know very much about the American maffia, but meanwhile they know nothing about the Sicilian maffia.

What's your case, American? :p
Do you know something about the 'true' maffia, from Sicily, where it all started? Do you know who Calo Vizzini is? Or Cascio-Ferro? Or Badalamenti?

If not, what is the reason for this lack of knowledge?

Hope I'll get any answers, and thanks in advance.

I think you are making a big mistakes here Enzo. I'm sure some people know a lot more then you think.

Why don't you share some of your knowledge with us about the Sicilian Mafia?


Don Cardi

You can't even spell "Mafia."

You can't even spell "Mafia." [/b][/quote]Ya think? I think your wrong on this point. For us Dutchies it's hard to remember that in English it's Mafia and in Dutch Maffia. The extra 'f' is the problem. So if someone types maffia, this can't hardly be wrong since we don't know better. But yes, we are typing in English, so it should be with one 'f'.

I would normally agree with you, MMF, about the difference in spellings in our languages, but in this case its different. The very place of this Mob's origin spells it M-A-F-I-A. Its not that we spell it differently here (in English).

Remember, one of the POSSIBLE origins of the word "Mafia" comes from the cry "Morte All Francia Italia Anelia".

Why don't you share some of your knowledge with us about the Sicilian Mafia?


[/b][/quote]Enzo Scifo...
a refusal is not an act of a friend...

I noticed some not so agreeing reactions. But I think I didn't put my question right. Maybe I should have put

"meanwhile they know less about the Sicilian maffia."

Instead of

"meanwhile they know nothing about the Sicilian maffia."

I didn't meant to let it look like Americans are stupid, but I just noticed they usually know more about American than about Sicilian maffia. That is of course logical, but I also wanted to see how much they know about Sicilian maffia.


Actually, they use both forms in Sicily. According to John Dickies "Cosa Nostra", they use both - mafia and maffia - in Sicilian.

About Morte alla Francia, Italia Aliena, I know you said 'possible', but the unlikeliness of this theory is 99,9%. A more plausible explanation is the Arabian "Ma'Afir", but I forgot what it means. MMFloors maybe?

Well I always believed that the Dutch couldn't change a way of spelling a word (actually a name...which never can't be written a different way. i.e. John is John in Dutch and English) which has it's origin in dialect Sicilian. But after reading "The Mafia of an Sicilian Village" from Anton Blok, I believe that the name Mafia isn't a name but a indicational word. Which CAN be changed. i.e. Tree is in Dutch 'Boom'....in this way you spell it different too! So why not for Mafia, and in Dutch Maffia.....I still stand by my opinion.

And I hope you don't truly believe the 'Morte Alle Francia, Italia Anelia' theory, do you?

"Ma'Afir" is more plausible. It was a Saracen Tribe living in caves nearby Palermo. This Tribe had the same ideals as Mafia had in the beginning. So there's a theory that the Mafia is named after them....

Both mafia and maffia are used on Sicily. In Italian it is mafia with one f. But in certain Sicilian dialects it is maffia. In English the pronounciation stays the same but in some Sicilian and Napolitan dialects there is a small difference.
But mafia is the common term international, only in Dutch it is maffia.

As for the knowledge of the Sicilian mafia I think that also for Europeans and even Italians it's just more difficult to obtain accurate information about Sicily. Few of the documents and books (if they are even reliable) are translated.
But when you look at little deeper it is true that the Sicilian mafia is more fascinating (also because less is known about it).
I am sure Enzo agrees on this!

You mean that most books/documents are in Sicilian, and aren't translated into English and Dutch?

yes, most documents and even books about the mafia arent translated. You mentioned John Dicke, well look at the books he used and the documents he mentions, most of them are only available in Italian.
The most stunning example is Cola Gentile's biography that only recently got translated, after Dickie published 'Cosa Nostra'.

No. I was using it as an example of how to properly spell "Mafia".

Meanwhile I think that many of us from America would love to see some of you people who know about the Sicilian mafia post some bios and stories concerning the Sicilian Mafia.

I know that I would love to start seeing some stuff on here about them.


Don Cardi

Morte Alla Francia Italia Anela, isn't the origin of the name. Sicily wasn't from Italia at that time (1200's), so the theory is complete nonsens (to me)...

A pretty good article about the Sicilian Mafia and its philosophy around the time of 1900:
web page

Here is my take on it. First a disclaimer, I like to read about Sicily, Italy and America BUT I find it much more enjoyable to read about things that happened in the United States, especially New York/New Jersey because that is where I'm from. I can only speak for myself but it's more fun reading a book and reading about what happened on 63rd street and you have been to that street, or that house or that restaurant. I'm guessing it would be the same for people who live in Sicily to read about the Sicilian Mafia, I think people are drawn to things they have experienced or visited before.

Now I'm getting in troubles
My knowledge for the moment is still limited (I'm only reading my second book about Sicilian maffia), but there are others who can provide you with plenty of info, like juventus, willy, and the 'Dutch Turnbull' M.M.Floors :p

Very true DMC. There is absolutely nothing like reading about something that you are very interested in and also having it relate to where you may have grown up or live. I remember when I first read The Bull's book "Underboss," I could not put the book down because A) his stomping grounds were where I grew up, B) he talked about and mentions people that I remember from the neighborhood and C) I remember witnessing several events that took place that he talked about in the book.

But by the same token I would really like to see some people from other parts of the world, especially Italy, start to share some of the stories involving the mob that either took place or are curently taking place where they live.


Don Cardi

Enzo, if you do a "search" on this thread, you will find that more than a few Americans have posted and answered questions on the Sicilian Mafia, including the people you named.

This reminds me of a story I read many years ago:
It is said that the origin of the word "Yankee" occured when the Dutch lost Niew Amsterdam to the Duke of York. The still-largely Dutch population of New York deeply resented their new British masters. They charicatured Brits as always being named "John" and always eating cheese. Hence Dutch New Yorkers referred to British New Yorkers as "Jan Kaes" or as it became, "Yankees."
Imagine Fidel Castro constantly denouncing Americans with an ancient Dutch expression.
Another theory is that "Yankees" originated in another Dutch word, "Jankes," which I believe means "barking dog."

Your right in your first theory. Yankees is a word for "Jan Kees". And "Jan"/"Kees" are very common names in our country.

"Jankes" should probably be "Jankers" and the last word is also a word for a barking dog.

So you know a lot about the Dutchie's dont ya?

Interesting. I always knew I'd rather be a cheese eater than a cheese cutter.

Eat enough cheese and you'll be cutting it, regardless.

I'll do a search right now, because I really want to know what's been said before I joined this board.

Btw, I never named some people. You must have misread that, I just said 'some Americans'.

I'll do a search right now, because I really want to know what's been said before I joined this board.

Btw, I never named some people. You must have misread that, I just said 'some Americans'. [/b][/quote]Enzo, what I meant was that some Americans have posted on the Sicilian Mafiosi you named in your original message: Calo Vizzini, Cascio-Ferro, Badalamenti. And I took no offense.

Nice, I didn't know that.
But I also have to correct you on some things.
Cheese in Dutch is 'kaas', not 'kaes'. But in the spelling of that time (17th century), it was indeed 'kaes'.
The former name of NY was Nieuw (so not niew) Amsterdam. And a 'janker' literally means 'cryer'.

So children, that was all for today's Dutch class...

Oww, like that. Yeah, sorry, I tought you implied that I namecalled. Never mind, back to normal.

Where are the corrections? I don't see any.

Kaes => Kaas