I don't hate you. I simply disagree that mobsters are people to be idolized. And SC said that we continue in PM's OR in this thread.

You can disagree without ordering to change the people´s mind. To me Jim Morrison is not a good example to idolize for the reasons I gave you in a Private message, being a singer who did what I told you he did doesn´t make him a better example than gangsters in my opinion.
And I won´t accept for any reason at all the fact the people tell me who I have to idolize.

Don Pappo, don't act like if someone is attacking you personally. Nobody hates you, and I usually like reading your posts in other threads. But here we have a difference in opinions, and we are discussing it, that's all.
And yes, we can talk about it in this thread, SC said we could. PM's are quite impossible, since there are more than 2 people posting in this thread.

And about Mason or Manson, just forget about the mistake you made. Of course I know Charles Manson, he was indeed 'an animal'. But I tought there was also a guy named Mason. Just fuggedaboutid

Don Pappo, another question for you:
Do you agree with me that maffiosi are bad, criminal people, when knowing that maffiosi are greedy blackmailing murderers?

No exacly. It depends on the point of view you have and what is bad, criminal for you.
It also depends on their goal, the enemy or the situation.
For example, if someone kills the Vittorio Amuso(Aka Michael Douglas, it´s not official but I guess he deserves to have this nickname you know why)´s son, then Amuso order the killing of his son´s killer, then It´s justice and not a criminal act. Many people think you are just a criminal because you killed your father´s killer, but those people think like this until it´s their turn to lose their parents, children or whatever by the gun, knife, poison or whatever it is of a killer.

If you do that then you are a criminal. Then you are no better than the killer of your father.

If you do that then you are a criminal. Then you are no better than the killer of your father. [/b][/quote]You think like this until it`s your turn...

According to the law, you're a criminal if you kill someone. No matter what happened before or whether it was for vengeance. Murderers are criminals, that is what the law says and it's also pure logic.

Maffiosi are also murderers, and thus criminals.

No exacly. It depends on the point of view you have and what is bad, criminal for you.. [/b][/quote]Maffiosi blackmail and steal, and they also kill when it's not for vengeance (which you seem to approve). Again, do you agree with me that maffiosi are bad?

If you're a KILLER, you're a KILLER. For revenge or NOT. Stop living in your little noble, fantasy, mafia world and open your eyes.

No exacly. It depends on the point of view you have and what is bad, criminal for you.
It also depends on their goal, the enemy or the situation.
For example, if someone kills the Vittorio Amuso(Aka Michael Douglas, it´s not official but I guess he deserves to have this nickname you know why)´s son, then Amuso order the killing of his son´s killer, then It´s justice and not a criminal act. Many people think you are just a criminal because you killed your father´s killer, but those people think like this until it´s their turn to lose their parents, children or whatever by the gun, knife, poison or whatever it is of a killer. [/b][/quote]I can understand your point, Don Pappo Napolitano, but this is not always the case with members of the Mafia. Tommy DeSimmone, for example, murdered "Billy Batts" for verbally insulting him. Did "Billy Batts" deserve to be half-beaten to death, stabbed and then shot to death because he verbally insulted someone with a bad temper? No. Maybe "Billy Batts" deserved to die for another reason we do not know about, but no one deserves to die for verbally insulting someone. Ever. "Billy Batts'" death was depicted in GoodFellas by Frank Vincent, Joe Pesci, Robert DeNiro and Ray Liotta. You are living in a fantasy, Don Pappo Napolitano. The Mafia of today are nothing like what they were depicted as in The Godfather. They murder for "business". Do you really want to idolize someone who murders another human being for a higher income?

I want to see you face to face if someday (I hope it never comes)a mad killer kills someone you love, you think like this because it seems nothing really bad happened to you.
People change when something really bad happened to them, and that`s is not a fantasy.

You are missing the point Peter Clemenza,I agree with you an insult doesn`t deserve it, but you cannot compare a few words with the killing of someone you love, don`t you know many people have changed and did what they didn`t know they were capable to do in a dramatic situation? That`s not fantasy, if you didn`t know about it, now I am letting you know it exists. In my opinion nobody deserves to die, unless they kill your father, mother or whatever. Don`t tell me you are gonna to congratulate the killer of your father if it happens Clemenza, because I don`t believe you.
That`s why I agree with the American death penalty, we don`t have it in Argentina, I don`t know why there are many people who claims amnesty for killers. And I don`t idolizing anyone, and again, if I do, I said so many time there are many worse people to idolize.

You don`t have to be mafioso or killer, or a thief to do bad things.

A question for everybody.

Is there a riot or a cyber strike called "Let`s change Don Pappo`s mind"?

It has been almost a week we are talking about the same.

Don Pappo-

The bottom line is that these people in the mob are leaches. They will suck the blood right out of you if they are given the opportunity. They will drain every last dollar from you, and could not give a damn if your mother, father, brother, sister or child starved to death because of their greed.

You talk about someone choosing that life or living that life because of the possibility that their mother or father was killed. Yes possible, but less likely than the real reason that they choose that life.

I would venture to say that the majority of people who choose that life are greedy people who are also lazy people. They want it all from life but are not willing to work hard to get what they want. They would rather that your father go and bust his ass everyday to make a living, this way they can take from someone like him rather than work hard themselves. They choose that life because they want to get things the easy way. Many times they may be young kids who grow up in an area and have mobsters all around them. These kids see them driving the best cars, wearing the most expensive clothes, throwing money around like it is nothing and all the while never seeing these guys going to or coming home from a hard days work. It's tempting for a poor young person to choose that kind of life because of how they idolize the mobsters that they try to and want to emulate. But they only are exposed to the positive attributes of a mobsters life.

Along with the fancy cars, the wads of money, and the sharp clothes, there is a flip side to that life. You are at the beckon and call of every mobster over you. Your life is constantly at risk, be it from your enemies, the authorities, your partner or your boss. Everyday that a mobster wakes up he has to wonder if this will be the day that it all ends. Everyday. If you make a buck, those over you take their share. If your wife or children need you, and the boss calls, then you must put your boss before your own wife and children. If your boss even "thinks" that you've screwed him, just "thinks" it, you will probably be a dead man before you know it. Everytime you are with your wife and children, you are putting their lives at risk. And if they can't get to you physically, they will come at what you love and take it away from you. Your wife and children, your blood family.

One must be educated about the what these people are really about. And I believe that if a young man is shown that living the mob life is not all peaches and cream, they will realize that these guys are nothing but life sucking scumbags and that life is not really what it appears to be on the outside.

Would you become a member of that kind of life if you were given the opportunity?


Don Cardi

You don`t have to be mafioso or killer, or a thief to do bad things. [/b][/quote]Of course not, if I eat my cat then I'm also a bad person.

But that wasn't the question. The question was "Do you agree with me that mafiosi are bad people?" Just say yes or no. Very simple.

No, Don Cardi, as far as I know I wouldn`t but be sure I will never become a cop either.

I don`t agree about "easy life" and they are lazy, I think they work harder than anyone because as you have already said, they are in constant danger and they don`t know if they will finish the day(what about the cops or soldiers? what`s more, nobody has the life bought, everybody can have an accident with a car without being a gangster). I also think it is a mistake the gangster have wife and kids, if they found themself in that life(I never say they chose)they shouldn`t.

I still think there are worse people

I told you, nobody is good or bad people 100% Nothing is 100% good

You are really something else. :rolleyes:

Wrong! Pulling a trigger doesn't take strength or hard work. Getting up every day and working for a living! That's hard work. Let's see them try that! Then we'll see who's really tough. The working man is tough and works hard.
The working man is the tough guy!


Don Cardi

I told you, nobody is good or bad people 100% Nothing is 100% good [/b][/quote]Okay then, let's try another one.

Do you agree with me that mafiosi are criminals. Again, yes or no?

Really? Why not, if I may ask?

You are missing the point Peter Clemenza,I agree with you an insult doesn`t deserve it, but you cannot compare a few words with the killing of someone you love, don`t you know many people have changed and did what they didn`t know they were capable to do in a dramatic situation? That`s not fantasy, if you didn`t know about it, now I am letting you know it exists. In my opinion nobody deserves to die, unless they kill your father, mother or whatever. Don`t tell me you are gonna to congratulate the killer of your father if it happens Clemenza, because I don`t believe you.
That`s why I agree with the American death penalty, we don`t have it in Argentina, I don`t know why there are many people who claims amnesty for killers. And I don`t idolizing anyone, and again, if I do, I said so many time there are many worse people to idolize. [/b][/quote]You are missing my point, Don Pappo Nepolitano. I was trying to point out that not all murders committed by members of the Mafia are because one of their members' family members or friends was murdered. As I said earlier, they murder other human beings for a higher income, and for that, they do not deserve anyone's respect.

Wrong! Pulling a trigger doesn't take strength or hard work. Getting up every day and working for a living! That's hard work. Let's see them try that! Then we'll see who's really tough. The working man is tough and works hard.
The working man is the tough guy!


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]I agree with you, but don`t tell me it`s easy to pull the trigger.
Or do you have a gun everyday?

When I said "it`s harder" I meant everything you have already said, that it`s a dangerous life, that you don`t know how long you are gonna live, etc.
I ask you, what is the difference with a policeman or a soldier?
By the way, do you think everyone who is not a gangster has the life bought and paid? Anyone could cross the street and be crushed accidently by a car.

Again, I am not idolizing anyone, everybody here is misunderstanding everything about what I say.

Really? Why not, if I may ask? [/b][/quote]Do you think being a cop is a better example?

I am gonna say something in my defense. You don`t need to be a gangster to do bad things or not to deserve respect.

I don`t care if you are a hard working man and you pay your taxes every year, if you beat your dog just because you like to do it, if you cheat on your wife with a mistress, if you leave your wife and kids to go with your mistress, if you have a friend who needs you to listen to him because he had an argument with his parents and you ignore him, if you tell the one who is making a birthday party you are gonna go and you finally don`t, if you offer a kid or a person who says he has ever try to smoke and drink cigarettes or an alcoholic drink and you tell them "become a man, smoke and drink", then YOU don`t deserve respect and you are not a better example than a gangster even if you are a hard working man.
Gangsters kill, I know but...
When you are offering cigarettes, drugs or alcohol someone YOU ARE KILLING, if you cheat on your wife YOU ARE KILLING HER, if you beat your dog simply because you like it YOU ARE KILLING HIM, if you don`t go to a birthday party when you told the guy you were gonna go YOU ARE KILLING HIM, if you ignore your friend when he needs you to listen to him as a friend you are supposed to be YOU ARE KILLING HIM, if you go with your mistress leaving your wife and kids YOU ARE KILLING THEM.

Some hard working men do bad things too, people!

Don Cardi, these kind of hard working men are not tough guys if they do those things.

What I mean is, there are many ways to kill someone without being a gangster or serial killer. Killing a body is not the only way to kill a person. I gave you example above.

Once again, I never wanted to get attention I got. How long are we gonna talk about the same? Is this topic gonna have 100 pages?I hope it isn`t

But not necessarily. Most hard working men are just good guys, who make mistakes (who doesn't) but who in general are honest good people.

If you are a mafiosi then you are per definition a criminal and a murderer. See the difference?

Enzo, let it go. You are wasting your breath because he just cannot seem to comprehend what we are trying to point out to him. Instead he mixes apples and oranges.


While there are bad people in this world, only some of them are bad.

There are bad gangsters in this world, and ALL of them ARE bad.


He just cannot seem to differenciate the two.


Don Cardi

I think you're right. I'm a bit tired of it. And I think Don Pappo is too.
I can only hope he will open his eyes sometime...