We are here to reason. Or to discuss things. That's one of the things these boards exist for.

Look, some thing are just wrong, in terms that they are incorrect. Saying the sun is moving around the earth is an example: saying that is saying something wrong and incorrect. Saying maffiosi aren't bad people is also incorrect.
How to define bad? They are greedy as hell, kill many people, and choose for that life. That's right, they choose for it.
Re-read the story of DC: Do you think that wasn't criminal and bad?

But maybe "greedy as hell and murderous" isn't in your definition of 'bad', in that case you indeed have the right to think maffiosi aren't bad people.

If you don't see that maffiosi are bad, then I want to change your mind about that. What you think is incorrect, it's a wrong fact. So I tell you that what you think isn't correct. Btw, a famous quote says "Misinformation is a weapon of massdestruction."
I like that you don't think what most of the people think. That's a good thing, it helps our world being refreshed all the time. I myself, mostly think something that the rest doesn't agree with, and I don't mind.
And I advise you to continue thinking what's not 'convenient'. As long as you go for the right things, and don't get misinformed about criminals.

Oh my!!! I didn´t think you were gonna put this topic!!!

Let me tell you something, if someone wants to say the sun is moving around the earth it´s his/her problem and not mine, you always attempt to say Gangsters are bad people but you didn´t answer if you consider Charles Mason a better example than John Gotti, and then you say I always avoid question. About their choice of that life, not always it was a choice, sometimes, plain and simple(like Don Cardi says) they had no choice and try to get a better life for their personal families and most of them don´t want their kids in that life and are capable to slap in their face if they try to copy their fathers(Ok there are a few exceptions, John Gotti-Junior Gotti and Carmine Perisco-Al Perisco, The Chin said once "Geez, I´m sorry to hear that" when Gotti told him he made his son a made man, that would mean The Chin did not want his kids to be made, although Andrew Gigante could help his father when he was in jail, but I don´t know how much he was involved in his father´s businesses, but a son trying to help his father), it´s like a boxer, the boxers hardly could help their kids to become a boxer, this is a hard life, the fathers do the hard job to give their kids a good future and the chance to study and go to collage to avoid they do the same.

I wouldnt be so eager to believe this Robin Hood type image of mafiamen that you see in the movies and stuff. A criminal claiming he was sucked into a criminal lifestyle because he wanted to provide for his family is inaccurate, at least in the present day.

Perhaps, 80 to 100 years ago, when poor Italian immigrants were first moving to this country, they were truly discriminated against and needed to not abide by some laws so they could provide for their children, but any sense of that has been lost over time.

Its very easy to confuse real life gangsters with movie gangsters, but its a distinction that must be made.

Arguing this point with Don Pappo is like yelling at Helen Keller. Both fall on deaf ears. :p

I don't think anyone here is arguing against Don Pappo's right to believe as he does, and I don't mean to sound like someone is, but remember he has that right.

FWIW - I think MMTH is right about the current "myth" about the mob and Robin Hood. It may be fun to talk about the mob but I can't see any good in glorifying their actions (or saying that they aren't all THAT bad).

I didn't answer because Jim Morrison and Charles Mason (whoever he is, don't know him) were irrelevant in this.
I don't think you understood what he tried to say, or else I didn't understand it.

Are you talking about the story he posted about the garbage removal

It`s irrelevant when the answer doesn`t stand on your side.

It`s irrelevant when the answer doesn`t stand on your side. [/b][/quote]We were talking about whether maffiosi are good or bad people. Bringing up whether people respect Morrison and Mason for the wrong reason has nothing to do with it, so it's irrelevant.
The answers wasn't standing on my side, but neither on your side.

So now we have two topics debating the same issue. Ok fine. It's no problem that we now have this topic titled "Idolizing" as it is an appropriate title for what is being debated. So please continue your debate under this topic and let's cease the debate of the idolizing issue over in the others.


Don Cardi

We were talking about whether maffiosi are good or bad people. Bringing up whether people respect Morrison and Mason for the wrong reason has nothing to do with it, so it's irrelevant.
The answers wasn't standing on my side, but neither on your side. [/b][/quote]You don`t "jump into the swimming pool"(an expression). You don`t say whether YES or NO, right or wrong, I did, you didn`t and I still think it`s irrelevant when the answer doesn`t help you, if you avoid to answer my previous question you are helping my point of view, think about it.

Happy new year, it seems we are finishing this year and beggining a new one with a kind of war of words.

We were talking about whether maffiosi are good or bad people. Bringing up whether people respect Morrison and Mason for the wrong reason has nothing to do with it, so it's irrelevant.
The answers wasn't standing on my side, but neither on your side. [/b][/quote]You don`t "jump into the swimming pool"(an expression). You don`t say whether YES or NO, right or wrong, I did, you didn`t and I still think it`s irrelevant when the answer doesn`t help you, if you avoid to answer my previous question you are helping my point of view, think about it.[/b][/quote]FIRST OF ALL, you NEVER said what Jim Morrison did that was so bad. Would you mind posting that in the General DIscussion forum and stop avoiding the question? We are talking about whether mobsters should be idolized and you BRING UP Nazis, Rockstars, and others. THey HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MOB. HELLO! HELLO!

Remember, there are NO wars in this thread! As long as it doesn't get personal, then feel free to debate and stay on topic. Otherwise some may begin the New Year playing over in SC's sandbox and with a closed topic!


Happy New Year!


Don Cardi

Okay. I will say yes or no, I will jump into the swimming pool. Can you repeat that question one more time? Because I really can't find what you asked.

Let`s go to General Discussion, and of course they have to do with this topic! If you want to talk about bad things, well, do it, but nobody will be safe! HELLO! HELLO!

Okay. I will say yes or no, I will jump into the swimming pool. Can you repeat that question one more time? Because I really can't find what you asked. [/b][/quote]Do you think Charles Mason is a better example to idolize(Axl Rose)?

than Gotti or the Chin?

Of course. Mason doesn't murder, blackmail or rob people.

Enzo, assuming he meant Manson, he did do all of that. Manson was the leader of a cult who killed 5 people I believe.

My problem with this whole discussion is the argument seems like I will worship and idiolize the Mafia because there are SOME people out there who are worse than them. It's like worshipping a rapist and hating a child molester. They are ALL the same kind of people, mafioso, murderer, kidnapper WHATEVER are all the same kind of person and none should EVER be idiolized. And Don Pappo when you say things like "God Bless the Chin" it is very evident that you DO idiolize and want to be like those people.

I personally LOVE reading about Hitler because of everything he did, a man who was 5'4 110 pounds soaking wet was easily the most powerful person in the world, that to me is very interesting. But I'll be damned if I'd ever say "God Bless Adolf Hitler"

Enzo, assuming he meant Manson, he did do all of that. Manson was the leader of a cult who killed 5 people I believe.
[/b][/quote]Don Pappo said he meant Mason from Axl Rose. Isn't that a rock-group?

Exactly. It's sad how naive and misinformed he is, really.

Oh, and Don Pappo, Morrison was only arrested once during a concert. Never killed anybody either. Try again.

I answer you in a private message, quit talking about it here, this is not the right topic, or you need the people to read your posts to get the support of theirs?

If you talk here then I can participate too.

Enzo, assuming he meant Manson, he did do all of that. Manson was the leader of a cult who killed 5 people I believe.
[/b][/quote]Don Pappo said he meant Mason from Axl Rose. Isn't that a rock-group? [/b][/quote]Enzo, it seems you have no idea who Charles Mason was, he did everything you have said he didn`t. He was a serial killer, he used to kill in satanic ritual the people he was with, for example in 1969 Mason ordered his "fans" to kill everyone in the director Roman Polanski`s house including Sharon Tate, an actrice and his wife who was pregnant with 8 monthes. Charles Mason showed himself as a religious fan straight to madness, he listened "Helter Skelter" from the White Album of The Beatles in 1968 and thought it was a message to kill the people, he created a religious organization called "The Family" but we are not talking about Cosa Nostra. Many young people did what he told them to do without question, he blackmailed Polanski to the Paramount before the killing in his house.He became famous for that and was caught and sentenced for life, about Axl Rose, he used to wear a Charles Mason T-shirt during the Use your illusion Tour and he sang a few words about him in the last album in 1993 The Spaghetti incident?.

MANSON Charles MaNson. With an 'N'. That's why Enzo doesn't know who you're talking about.

Enzo, assuming he meant Manson, he did do all of that. Manson was the leader of a cult who killed 5 people I believe.

My problem with this whole discussion is the argument seems like I will worship and idiolize the Mafia because there are SOME people out there who are worse than them. It's like worshipping a rapist and hating a child molester. They are ALL the same kind of people, mafioso, murderer, kidnapper WHATEVER are all the same kind of person and none should EVER be idiolized. And Don Pappo when you say things like "God Bless the Chin" it is very evident that you DO idiolize and want to be like those people.

I personally LOVE reading about Hitler because of everything he did, a man who was 5'4 110 pounds soaking wet was easily the most powerful person in the world, that to me is very interesting. But I'll be damned if I'd ever say "God Bless Adolf Hitler" [/b][/quote]Oh my!!! I cannot believe my eyes! What I have to read! Do you find interesting what Adolf Hitler did? If you say you read about him, somehow you are idolizing him, me? No, thanks! I rather John Gotti and The Chin, thank you!
When I say "God bless whoever" it doesn`t mean I idolize him, I am not a believer of religion but let`s say I am, isn`t God good enough to forgive everybody?
So, if I idolize them, so what? I still think there are worse people, let`s say you have just 2 option, Hitler-Gotti
Mussolini-The Chin, I don`t find it very hard to choose. But it seems you rather Hitler over John Gotti. Ok I respcet it but I don`t share it. I am not your mother to tell you what you have to read or idolize, and neither you are for me.If you say you just find interesting about what he did, ok I found interesting what John Gotti did to become a Don and how he manipulated the media.I guess many people in New York are still fans of him, I don`t know how many Hitler`s fans are there in New York, unless there are neo-nazis which I don`t know if there are in New York or USA. I think this is not an interesting topic to talk about it, we are gonna end up angry with the one another, we are making this a talk show tv program or areality show program, we don`t need this Don Michael Corleone.

Happy new year.

Oh! Sorry! What a difference! Damn the difference!
Don Michael Corleone did, Don Andrew. You could get the idea for the context, the same as if I said Jon Gotti, you will get the idea what I wanna say.
A question for you, Don Andrew, do you hate me?

Happy New Year

If you talk here then I can participate too. [/b][/quote]If you wanna participate, do it through private messages, thank you.

Happy New Year

You should become a politician Don Pappo, when in my post did I say I idiolized Adolf Hitler, don't put words in my mouth? My adding Adolf Hitler was letting you know that you can READ about something (WW2 or the mafia) and be interested in what happened without IDIOLIZING THEM.
I find it interesting how Gotti became boss as well, I think everyone who reads about the Mafia finds it INTERESTING, you IDIOLIZE the people. There is a HUGE difference.

No hard feelings when arguing, but not when you put words in my mouth.

You are PUTTING words in my mouth, well, in this case on my fingers hahaha.

I am so tired to say I DON`T idolize them, but in case I do, so what? Many people idolize others who I consider they shouldn`t be idolized. If you say I idolize Gangster just because I was, I AM sorry to hear about the death of The Chin and said "God bless you, Chin" then I could say you idolize Hitler just because you read about him and find it interesting. Don`t try to change my mind because I never attempted to do it with the people here whether they agree with me or don`t, and because if I don`t win a battle at least I will get a draw.

About becoming a politician, yes! A corrupt one! hahah, No way! I am joking, maybe a defendant lawyer and you, Don Andrew and Enzo prosecutors!

If you talk here then I can participate too. [/b][/quote]If you wanna participate, do it through private messages, thank you.

Happy New Year [/b][/quote]You're regulating who can post and who can't now?

There IS a difference between Charles Mason and Charles Manson.