Please forgive me if I offended anyone or if I made too much of a miniscule thing. It seems like after being a teacher for 19 years my little mental "red pen" comes out automatically whenever something grammatical comes up. I guess it is just second nature to me. I know that the boards are very casual, but since the subject came up, I just thought I'd look the proper rule(s) up for anyone who might be interested. I wasn't trying to ridicule anyone or anyone's usage of the English language. You all are a great group of people with lots of interesting backgrounds--and that is what makes this board so fun and interestring. I will try very hard to refrain from making any further comments about language usage.

~~ Lollie

Please, Lollie, DON'T DO IT!!! None of us got offended, I believe. We were just sharing. Please, please, use that "red pencil" again, whenever needed, especially with me. I'll appreciate it very much!

Hey Mang! Wa iz dis, a schul room mang? Is dis da GF thread or da scul ov gramma mang? Wa happen to talkin about GF mang?

Just kidding. No apology needed here. People don't get offended on here that easily, at least most of us anyway. But for a moment there I almost forgot what this topic was originally titled!


Don Cardi

Cancerkitty, although I was taught British English, I do use American spelling often because it just seems to be easier. But you have to admit; omitting a comma is also the easier route!
Lollie, the greatest thing about these boards is that we can exchange our points of view. Arguing on the boards would save me from the tendency to argue at work and get fired! It is great to learn about what other people know. Please continue as you were, in no way you offended anyone. At least, now if I see a comma before "and" I'd know the reason behind it.

I beg to differ about the use of a comma before "and".

Read this:

"He gave him a bunch of guns including Uzis and pistols, and his Godfather movie collection."

The comma before "and" is to insure the reader's understanding that the author does not consider that the Godfather movie collection is neither a bunch nor tools, but that the Godfather movie collection was, indeed, given.

Such may seem obvious, but it can be a critical way to separate people, things, and ideas within the same sentence. Capisce?

In this example that you gave, INCLUDING UZIS AND PISTOLS is an appositive phrase which must be set off completely by commas. In other words, the sentence must read like this:

"HE GAVE HIM A BUNCH OF GUNS, INCLUDING UZIS AND PISTOLS, AND HIS GODFATHER MOVIE COLLECTION."

INCLUDING UZIS AND PISTOLS is also a subordinate clause which means it is not essential to the meaning of the sentence--therefore, it must be set off with commas. If you remove the clause from the sentence, it still makes sense. You don't lose the meaning nor have you disturbed the subject or verb.

The part of the sentence: HE GAVE HIM A BUNCH OF GUNS is an independent clause, INCLUDING UZIS AND PISTOLS is an appositive phrase, and AND HIS GODFATHER MOVIE COLLECTION is a dependent clause separated by a comma from the independent clause with or without the appositive phrase.

Clauses and phrases are very tricky. I've known many students who have almost pulled their hair out trying to make sense of them!!

~~ Lollie

sure, but we were arguing ( )about the usage of commas in a series, this is a completely different thing, IMO.

Lavinia:

My point exactly!! LOL!! The example did not meet the criteria of the argument!

~~ Lollie

So everyone's clear about comma useage in apposition? Good, good.

Yes, I am. Bu,t I, have personally, nev,er had a, proble,m with comma, usag,e.

Fantastic!