I've already said that, and I'll say it again now: my experience in this kind of game is equals to ZERO so it may sound like a crazy thing to do, I dunno, but if we just didn't charge the losing pitcher with anything (like in Salary Cap), wouldn't it be fixed?

relievers wouldn't mind getting a BS and a L because it wouldn't mean -20 pts anymore, and I believe it'd also help the starters, because at least the way I see it, this scoring system is too up and down for them. I don't know if I'm tripping or what, but I believe 90% of the times your starters get either a +20 or a -10.

if a guy works 6 innings, with let's say 7 H, 2 ER, 2 BB and 3 K and grabs the Loss, he gets 1 lousy point, even though he did a nice work and "gave his team a chance to win". if his team scored 3 runs and not only 1, he'd get 14 pts. too much of a difference even though he did not have the smallest influence in the outcome.

You caught up to me, but I have a shit load of starting pitching in hand. ....As for the saves being worthless in this game, don't get me started again.

Randy Johnson!

Somebody shoot me now. Please.

You and your Johnsons, forever hopeful yet never scoring big... :p

That's why I stick with Busch's when I can.

Uh, oh - Your Johnson just gave up a lot more runs... what a bastard doing that during your 9000 Post Party! (Congrats )

There's a party? Why wasn't I invited?

Oh well, but anything for a kiss.

Saves are not worthless, altho you may think that they are not worth enough.

A Save is worth +2.

A Blown Save is worth -6.

That way a guy who convets 75% of his opportunities.....below average for a closer, winds up with a net of zero.

It's just like Wins a Losses.

A SP with a W-L reord of 6-7, below average for a SP, winds up with a net of zero.

A decent SP who goes, say, 18-12 over the course of the season, better than average, winds up at +54 for his wins and losses.

A comparable closer, who saves, say 35 out of 40 over the course of the season, better than average, winds up at +50 fo his saves and save opportunities.

I still don't see what's wrong with that or the proportions.

Isn't a SP who goes 18-12 roughly as good and as valuable as a closer who saves 35 out of 40?

Interesting proposal, JL, I'll have to think about it. Who'd I trade him away for again? Oh yeah, that other no-good douchebag at 3rd base. :rolleyes:

Hey JG.....

Maybe I'll make you a better offer for starting pitching - I know that's what JL wants....don't do anything yet w/o telling me what he proposes.

Nothing unethical about that, BTW.

MLB teams do it all the time when they have a guy they're willing to trade. They "shop" him.

You don't even have to tell me who JL is offering. Just tell me who YOU are willing to trade.

There are no pitchers involved...

Does PL have to stick his 5th place nose in everyone's business? :rolleyes:

Yup.

Lemme know anyway, JG. I have some surplus. And I don't want to see JL get any stronger.

As far as you're concerned, if someone is gonna get stronger from a trade besides you, isn't it better for you that it be me instead of him?

Well considering you have yet to make a fair trade or offer one, there's little chance JG will fall for any of your offers.

I sure as f--k don't want him to get any stronger either -- I'm the one battling between 1st and 2nd w/ him! :p I just need to figure out his strategy, and see if his reasoning is just or not... maybe *I'd* get stronger.

Ouch! PL - JL says you never make or offer fair trades - are you gonna take that from him?!

Oh please. ....Go ahead and make him an offer that doesn't only benefit yourself. I dare you. Offer your usual backups for JG's stars.

Totally not true, and you know it.

And I remember ome of the offers you made me. Who did you want for Sodney Ponson again -- the guy you put on waivers the next day? :p

Just tell me what the deal is, JG. What do you have to lose?

If I can do better, fine. If not, nothing lost.

You know, JG....JL seems awfully anxious to keep this one a secret. He must really think he's taking you to the cleaners on it.

PL's strategy is to pick up relatively unknown players on a hot streak strickly for trade bait. Like the person he's offering them to couldn't pick them up themselves if he needed them! :rolleyes:

I fell for that once. But this time, *I* picked some hot young talent and one in particular has been working out great so far. Now I gotta decide whether I think it'll continue or not.......

I'll even tell you my reasoning. I have too many players at the position I offered you. I offered you a player with more fantasy points for a player that can be a backup for my other players. Fair enough?

It's not a secret. It's just none of your business.

That's true - but at the same time I do, too... I gotta run tho - will think about it...

Thats for JG to decide.

But if I owned a real time and my GM was trading players before finding our if he was getting the most for them that he possibly could, I'd fire him in a second.

And the same holds true for you.

Why would you want to trade someone without knowing if I - or anyone else - would give you more?

FWIW, JL, your reasoning is pretty much the reasoning that's making me unsure, cuz I would lose the same thing you're looking for... but, I'll think about it!

Edited

That's not always my strategy.

We made a trade like that once that looked good on paper. It just didn't happen to work out for you.

You didn't "fall" for anything. You were getting a bunch of players in that deal who were better than what you had, and if you remember I showed you with their scoring averages that you were improving your team.

It just so happens that the guys I traded you started doing worse, and Lebron started doing better.

If everyone would have kept playing at the same level they were at, it would have been a fair trade.

Who was it you wanted for Ponson again, JL? I forgot :p .

To change the subject....

When are you gonna give up on Hudson already, DB?

We'll do something to fix the problem next season.

Maybe fewer negative points for a Loss and Save opportunity, or more points for a Win and a Save.

That's for JG to decide. not for you to get in the middle of it. It doesn't concern you. If you and JG had trade talks, I wouldn't be in here begging you or JG not to deal with each other. :rolleyes:

The guy you put on waivers for nothing.

That was back when Sanchez was good, though.

As far as trading goes....

There are two POVs that you have to look at:

That of the person making the offer, and that of the person to whom the offer is being made.

If I'm making someone an offer, obviously I feel that I'm getting the better of the deal, so it's perfectly understandable why I - or in theis case you, since you're making the offer - would not want anyone else to know what the potential deal is.

If I think I'm getting the best of it, of course I'd be afraid that someone will offer the guy I want to trade with more for the player(s) I want to acquire.

Every trade Ive ever made in any one of these games has been one in which I made the initial offer.

In every one of them I thought that I was getting the best of the deal, so I never solicited a better offer for the player(s) I was trading away.

In this case, I'd guess that you probably are looking to make a deal here and trade someone not because you want to necessarily get rid of that particular guy, but because there's a guy that JG has that you want.

But from JG's POV....

Seemingly he is somewhat willing to make the deal, because he didn't reject it.

But he's not the one who proposed it, and obviously he has doubts.

He probably wasn't thinking of trading the guy until you came along with an offer, so wouldn't he be foolish not to find out if someone is willing to make a better offer?

That logic doesn't apply to you seeing if I'd make a better offer for the guy you want to trade, because I'd guess that I don't have anyone you'd be interested in trading for.

If I did, you would have offered a deal to me.

That, I think is the difference, and that's why JG should find out if he can get more than what you are offering.

You made the offer, you must think you're getting the best of the deal, and that should make JG stop and think and see if he could do better.

As I said, if I owned a real team and my GM was accepting offers without finding out if he could get a better offer elsewhere, he's not doing his job.

If he's the one making the offers, though, it's a totally different story, because if I think he knows what he's doing, he's not making any offers in which he's not getting the best of the deal.

It's got nothing to do with it being "none of my business" or "begging JG not to trade with you."

It's the way I believe that it works in the real world, unless the GM is a fool.

That's why I wonder about the Kazmir-Zambrano trade.

I'd wonder who proposed it.

If it was Tampa Bay, I'd bet anything that the Mets GM didn't go around to other teams to see if he could get more, because if he had I'm sure he could have gotten more.

And if it was the Mets offering the deal to TB, they must have thought Zambrano was better, so I could understand that they'd be afraid that another team might've offered TB more than Kazmir.

But the GM should have been shot anyway, because my at-the-time 15-year old knew that he Mets were getting the worst of it.