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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274932
06/13/06 05:32 AM
06/13/06 05:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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Originally posted by plawrence: What is the italicized "O" supposed to stand for?  Ovva  You don't know what "S.O.B." stands for?? :p
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey!  lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274933
06/13/06 06:21 AM
06/13/06 06:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
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plawrence
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Yeah, I knew....I just didn't think that that was what you meant. I figured it was supposed to stand for "Sunday_________-Baseball" - you know, something clever or witty or humorous. Of course with the daily whining you do, I guess I should have figured it out.  :p 
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274934
06/13/06 12:16 PM
06/13/06 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
Joined: Jul 2001
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June 13
JUNE TOTALS
6/13 H/AB HR RBI AVG H/AB HR RBI AVG
PL Wright 15/40 4 7 .375
DM Giambi 12/40 0 6 .300
JG Rollins 13/44 2 8 .295
DJ Rolen 8/32 4 9 .250
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274935
06/13/06 05:45 PM
06/13/06 05:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
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plawrence
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One of you guys - JG or DM, anyway - refresh my memory if you can. How does ESPN determine among the four of us who is in first, who is in second, etc.? The reason I ask is 'cuz it would be helpful to know that - I think, anyway - in deciding which categories to concentrate on. Anyway....If it were up to me - and maybe the way we could or should do it if we can't figure out how ESPN does it, or don't like the way they do it - is by taking all 3 categories and awarding 4 points for being in first place in a category, three points for being in second, two points for being in third, and one point for being in fourth. Which would make this month's standings look like this: AVG HR RBI TOT
PL 4.0 3.5 2.0 9.5
DJ 1.0 3.5 4.0 8.5
JG 2.0 2.0 3.0 7.0
DM 3.0 1.0 1.0 5.0 Based on this:
H/AB HR RBI AVG
PL 15/40 4 7 .375
DM 12/40 0 6 .300
JG 13/44 2 8 .295
DJ 8/32 4 9 .250
I know we went through this once before.... DJ is first in one category and tied for first in another, yet he's last. Meanwhile, DM is second in one category, but last in the other two, and he's second. I seem to recall that they base our standings on something to do with how we are doing compared to everyone else in the wrold who is playing the game, but for our purposes wouldn't it be better to just rate ourselves against each other?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274936
06/13/06 06:47 PM
06/13/06 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
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Since Day 1 I've always ranked by AVG -- for really no reason except it was the easiest way to do it, since there were few ties. However, since ESPN seems to rank in a way similiar to how you propose, I suppose I could just keep the standings in the order they present them. Therefore, it'd be as such: June 13
JUNE TOTALS
6/13 H/AB HR RBI AVG H/AB HR RBI AVG
PL Wright 15/40 4 7 .375
DJ Rolen 8/32 4 9 .250
JG Rollins 13/44 2 8 .295
DM Giambi 12/40 0 6 .300
It may take me some time to remember to do that, tho...
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274937
06/13/06 07:14 PM
06/13/06 07:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
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plawrence
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How have you been determining who the monthly winners have been? By however ESPN has us listed at the end of the month?
I haven't really been paying attention, but since I plan to win this month and the next three, I figure it would be good to know.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274938
06/13/06 07:38 PM
06/13/06 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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Whoever had 2 (or 3) out of the 3 categories was declared winner... (still sorted by AVG) April Final
APRIL TOTALS
H/AB HR RBI AVG
DJ 29/72 3 15 .403 DQ'd AVG - Didn't reach 90 ABs
PL 35/110 5 11 .318 APRIL WINNER (AVG & HR) (#2*)
DM 33/122 4 17 .270 (ESPN DECLARED AS WINNER*)
JG 27/109 2 13 .248
JL 20/84 0 8 .238
*I don't buy ESPN claiming DMC as winner as opposed to PL who won two of the 3 categories. Or maybe it's not sorting properly... May Final
MAY TOTALS
H/AB HR RBI AVG
DM 42/126 6 20 .333 MAY WINNER (AVG, RBI, tie HR)
PL 21/74 2 8 .284 (ESPN declared #5)
DJ 21/92 1 10 .228 (ESPN declared #4)
JG 28/134 3 18 .209 (ESPN declared #3)
JL 10/57 6 13 .175 (ESPN declared #2)
FWIW - I haven't formally designated 2nd Place or lower: Only the monthly winners... of which, you will not be in June, July, August or September. :p
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274939
06/13/06 08:47 PM
06/13/06 08:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
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Rollins 
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274940
06/13/06 09:58 PM
06/13/06 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
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June 13
JUNE TOTALS
6/13 H/AB HR RBI AVG H/AB HR RBI AVG
PL Wright 1/4 1 1 .250 16/44 5 8 .364
DJ Rolen 4/4 0 1 1.000 12/36 4 10 .333
JG Rollins 2/4 2 2 .500 15/48 4 10 .313
DM Giambi DNP - - .--- 12/40 0 6 .300
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274941
06/14/06 01:41 AM
06/14/06 01:41 AM
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Posts: 15,058
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plawrence
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Maybe margin of victory in a category has something to do with it, or should. We should have a clear-cut objective way of knowing who won. What if three different people each win one category? Suppose we have 5 players. Who would you give the win to here? On a 5-4-3-2-1 basis, everyone has 9 points: AVG. HR RBI
Player A .325 5 20
Player B .350 3 21
Player C .275 4 23
Player D .300 7 19
Player E .250 6 22 Same here: AVG. HR RBI
Player A .250 7 16
Player B .325 6 14
Player C .350 4 15
Player D .300 3 19
Player E .275 5 17 And here: AVG. HR RBI
Player A .300 6 14
Player B .250 7 15
Player C .350 5 13
Player D .275 4 17
Player E .325 3 16
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274942
06/14/06 02:34 AM
06/14/06 02:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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I don't use a "5-4-3-2-1 basis", so that point is rather moot. I haven't had a problem declaring a clear winner in all the months we've played over the years. At least no one's ever complained, so no sense in changing it now, especially mid-season. However, if a senario like that comes up in the future, I will default to ESPN...
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274943
06/14/06 06:17 AM
06/14/06 06:17 AM
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Posts: 15,058
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plawrence
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So if someone wins two (or all three, obviously) out of the three categoties, then they're the winner?
That makes sense.
And if three different people each win one of the categories, then your'e gonna go by whatever ESPN says?
Which brings me back to my original question:
One of you guys - JG or DM, anyway - refresh my memory if you can.
How does ESPN determine among the four of us who is in first, who is in second, etc.?
I guess I'll read the rules and see if I can figure it out.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274944
06/14/06 06:56 AM
06/14/06 06:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence
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OK, here's how ESPN does it: They don't. The game is based on determining a first place finisher in each of the three categories for each of the monthly segments. There is no "overall" winner for each month. If you go to our group's homepage, the default ESPN uses in listing our order is "Average". If you click on "Home Runs" it will re-sort us into that order; Same thing if you click on "RBIs". So unless you're gonna say that if three different people win each of the three categories then the winner for the month is the leader in Batting Average, we don't have a way pf deciding who wins in the event that that happens. May I suggest a 4-3-2-1 system? Then, all we need is a tiebreaker. IMO, RBI's are, to a great degree, a matter of luck - they're largely a function of opportunities, unlike home runs or batting average, which are categories that are more indicitive of a player's individual skill. That's why you often get a much greater swing in a player's RBI totals from year to year than you do in their home run totals and batting average. So, if you believe that to be a valid asumption, it takes more skill to finish first in the Home Run or Batting Average category. So I would pick the leader in one of those categories as the tiebreaker. Or, we could try and work out some kind of formula which weighs the margin of victory in the various catgories. In a case like this: AVG. HR RBI
Player A 35/112, .313 4 18
Player B 33/110, .300 5 22
Player C 31-112, .286 9 20 Each player won one category, but Player C's margin of victory in the category he won was much greater than the margins of victory of the other two. But if the tiebreaker is Batting Average, Player A wins. Or, we could work out a system where each category is valued differently, based on the skill required to win the category (altho I'm not sure how I would go about doing that). The only other "problem" is - if you regard it as a problem - is that using a 4-3-2-1 system as the tiebreaker in the event that no one wins at least two of the categories could lead to a situation in which someone does win two out of three categories, but has fewer "4-3-2-1- Points" than someone else.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274945
06/14/06 11:12 AM
06/14/06 11:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
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I guess, according to the Rules, ESPN picks 3 winners then. And you must win all 3 for the Triple Crown (that makes sense). However -- they do have a Triple Crown Leaderboard . I've always wondered the formula they use to determine the standings, as it's not too clear looking at it. Why don't you ask them? baseball@fantasygames.go.com But FWIW, I've always sorted by AVG because I thought that was the best indicator of talent, of the 3 stats. It may not indicate the most production (RBI) or power (HR), but -- to me -- indicates the most talent. And, as I said, we're more likely to have unique AVG scores than HRs & RBI. Most of the time we've had a clear winner -- someone winning 2 or 3 of the categories. I suppose we could work out a tie breaking system if we need it. So I'd be curious how ESPN determines their Triple Crown standings....
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274946
06/14/06 12:39 PM
06/14/06 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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OP
The Don
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June 14
JUNE TOTALS
6/14 H/AB HR RBI AVG H/AB HR RBI AVG
DJ ^ Delgado 2/4 0 3 .500 14/40 4 13 .350
PL GAnderson 0/4 0 0 .000 16/48 5 8 .333
JG GAnderson 0/4 0 0 .000 15/52 4 10 .288
DM Giles 1/3 0 0 .000 13/43 0 6 .302
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274947
06/14/06 01:37 PM
06/14/06 01:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
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plawrence
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"Not too clear" is putting it mildly. They have guys with higher totals in all three categories listed below guys with lower totals in all three. Why don't you contact them? You're the commish :p . Seriously, winning 2 out of 3 is fine for picking the winner. If you want to say that the tiebreaker is batting average if we have three different winners, that's fine also. Or a 4-3-2-1 system, with batting average as the tiebreaker for that, it's OK with me. Whatever you say. But let's just decide now, so if and when it does happen it's clear to everyone what our rules are.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274948
06/14/06 01:55 PM
06/14/06 01:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
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I sent them an email -- let's hope they're as fast as Yahoo...
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274949
06/14/06 02:01 PM
06/14/06 02:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence
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Now that's what I call commissionering.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274950
06/14/06 02:51 PM
06/14/06 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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OP
The Don
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Well, they certainly are fast -- but their "explanation" didn't seem to clear anything up, for me at least... I wrote: I was wondering how you determine the standings for the Triple Crown Leaders ... what formula do you use? Shouldn't "AVG %" be in order? The guys tied for #7 right now have better stats in all three categories then the guy listed #1...?
PS - Any chance you could add whether a pitcher is Righty or Lefty when you hover over their names, like you do with the batters? We organize them by avg. rank, meaning who is performing better on average in every one of the 3 categories. We will take your suggestion regarding lefties and righties into consideration next time we update the game. Thanks for the input.
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274951
06/15/06 04:11 AM
06/15/06 04:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence
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Thanks, ESPN. :rolleyes: For nothing. So whadda ya wanna do, Commish?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274952
06/15/06 01:17 PM
06/15/06 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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OP
The Don
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June 15
JUNE TOTALS
6/15 H/AB HR RBI AVG H/AB HR RBI AVG
PL ^ Ibanez 2/5 0 0 .400 18/53 5 8 .340
DJ Suzuki 1/5 0 0 .200 15/45 4 13 .333
JG Berkman 1/5 0 0 .200 16/57 4 10 .281
DM Crosby (?) 1/3 0 1 .333 14/46 0 7 .304
However Good ol' ESPN ( :rolleyes: ) ranks us, I think it's crap. PL should be listed first (as I have him), leading in HRs & AVG -- but they still have DJ there, only leading in RBI. Another reason why I sorted by AVG was to make it easier for me to order us so I don't make any mistakes... but luckily there are only a few of us playing.
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274953
06/16/06 12:58 PM
06/16/06 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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OP
The Don
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June 16
JUNE TOTALS
6/16 H/AB HR RBI AVG H/AB HR RBI AVG
DJ ^ Varitek 3/4 0 3 .750 18/49 4 16 .367
PL Giles 2/4 0 1 .500 20/57 5 9 .351
JG Rolen 0/3 0 0 .000 16/60 4 10 .267
DM Wells 0/4 0 0 .000 14/50 0 7 .280
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274954
06/16/06 03:10 PM
06/16/06 03:10 PM
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plawrence
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You still need to decide and post what the tiebreaker is if we have a different winner in each of the three categories. You wanna use average, fine. Or homers or RBIs.....Whatever you like. Just let us know, because it could make a difference in strategy, not to mention the avoiding of arguments if you make a decision after the fact. Originally posted by J Geoff:
However Good ol' ESPN ( :rolleyes: ) ranks us, I think it's crap. PL should be listed first (as I have him), leading in HRs & AVG -- but they still have DJ there, only leading in RBI. Apparently the system involves the size of the lead in the categories, or, as they explained it, how someone is foing relative to everyone else. My lead in average and homers is tiny, while DJ's lead in RBI's is much greater, so I'd guess that has something to do with it. Also, I don't think they're ranking us as being within a separate league, but rather as how we are doung - in total - compared to everyone else. (I know I didn't explain that very well.)
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274955
06/16/06 03:12 PM
06/16/06 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
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The Don
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The Don
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I guess AVG first, then HR, then RBI...
Good?
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274956
06/16/06 03:18 PM
06/16/06 03:18 PM
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plawrence
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Whatever you say is fine with me, just so we know, although IMO a 4-3-2-1 system would be more accurate because it reflects how we are doing in relation to our entire group and takes into account all the categories.
However, as I say, whatever you wish is fine with me.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274957
06/17/06 01:44 AM
06/17/06 01:44 AM
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plawrence
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Thinking about it some more, I guess I like the 4-3-2-1 method for deciding the winner, period, instead of going by whoever wins two categories, with average as the tiebreaker. In this scenario: 4-3-2-1
AVG. HR RBI Points
Player A 35-100, .350 3 12 6
Player B 34-100, .340 8 22 10
Player C 33-100, .330 6 23 8
Player D 32-100, .320 7 21 6Players A, B, & C each win one category, but Player A wins your way because he won Batting Average, while Player B, who clearly had the better month, wins in a 4-3-2-1 set-up. Or here: 4-3-2-1
AVG. HR RBI Points
Player A 35-102, .343 6 13 9
Player B 35-103, .340 5 21 10
Player C 33- 98, .337 4 15 7
Player D 33- 99, .333 3 14 4Player A wins your way because he won two categories, but with a 4-3-2-1 system Player B, who clearly had the better month, wins. In this scenario 4-3-2-1
AVG. HR RBI Points
Player A 22-100, .220 6 20 9.0
Player B 35-103, .340 5 19 9.5
Player C 33- 98, .337 5 18 7.0
Player D 33- 99, .333 4 18 4.5Player A wins under your system, while he arguably had the worst month of the three, while Player B, who arguably had the best month wins in a 4-3-2-1 setup
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274958
06/17/06 01:58 AM
06/17/06 01:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
OP
The Don
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OP
The Don
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,335
New Jersey, USA
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We'll discuss AFTER Fathers Day if you feel the need... I gotta finish packing...
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Diamond Daily 2006 (Triple Crown Game)
#274959
06/17/06 02:00 AM
06/17/06 02:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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You decide....I'm just pointing stuff out.
Pack on.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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