What happened to the office leather chair that both Vito and Michael sat in GF I & II? In III it was replaced in Michael's office with a high back chair with wood carving along the top.

Although Mary (his 19 year old cousin) had to introduce herself to Vincent at Michael's Commendatore celebration, the little girls to whom he said "I love you too" seemed to already know him.

What dons who were not slaughtered at the Ney Jersy massacre made deals with Zasa? Why would they make deals? Deals about what?: "You'd better make a deal with me or I'll have you shot from a helicopter at the big meeting next week."? What dons were missing?

Wasn't it convenient that as everyone is getting sprayed by machine gun bullets from a helicopter, noone except Michael, Vincent, and Neri seem to be trying to find cover. Many in the scene were shot while standing up even after bullets had been flying for quite awhile. And what was that stupid "lucky coat" thing all about?

It was even more convenient that there was a shotgun behind the bar at the massacre and that Neri knew it was there and exactly where it was positioned.

Vincent escorts Michael from the massacre to the limo. They leave Neri behind?

"Tony knows you killed Fredo." How did he know?

Vincent kills Zasa in broad daylight with a million people around. Of course, in order not to draw attention to himself before hand and to minimize identification, he not only dresses like a cop, but parades around all over the place in front of God knows how many people before he kills him. "Hey, that cop on the horse looks just like Vincent Mancini. I didn't know he had a twin brother." That's right out of the Mafia hit instruction manual, isn't it!

I was born and raised Catholic. I remember processions honoring Mary and San Rocco with statues and all. But, I don't remember any hooded figures carry the statues.

Any other observations?

that was something they did back in the day, but now i dont think they do it becuase of those ethnic things making it look like the KKK

and just cause u noticed all these things doesnt make it a bad movie every movie has them

The lucky coat thing always killed me... it's something you'd expect to see in something like Dick Tracy, but a Godfather movie? Come on!

That said, this movie has plenty of flaws but it's still good regardless. I think that says a lot about the power of the storyline and how the previous movies fill in a lot of gaps that exist in Part III.

All valid points.

I never understood how Neri got back as fast as he did, nor how quickly the news traveled about the other dons making deals and about Altobello planning to "retire" in Sicily. All this information was available a few hours after the hit when the Corleones were meeting in the Kitchen at Michaels.

FFC probably sold it for money!

I have many more observations. Sure, some of them may have come up in other postings.

1. Connie was always weak and could not recognize a good husband from a pimp. How did she end up as a Mafia princess, ordering hits and making decisions about Mike's successor?

2. Why do the Corleones in 1979 still listen and dance to the same music as in 1945? During the party, one can even hear the music that played in the Cuban nightclub during Michael's visit in 1958. Did Mike carry a tape recorder in Havana?

3. Is it possible to kill somebody using just his glasses?

4. How can an Italian don (Lucchese) have the accent of a Nazi in WWII movies?

5. How can a handsome hood that could have any woman he wants fall in love with his ugly (sorry Sofia) cousin while wishing to enter her father's organization?

6. How can a clever and experienced man like Michael expose his whole family to such danger at the Opera? As far as I can remember he knew about the assassination attempt from someone who "never fails", hence the bodyguards.


The list may continue on and on. The point is that, IMHO, the movie is hugely flawed and one can either ignore its existence or like it as it is.

well, Sophia/Mary was the director's and the Don's daughter. The combination must have been irresistible!

1. I'm sure the death of a spouse would have differing effects depending on each person. I'd assume with Connie it made her bitter and for the first time maybe she realised just what life she and her family were actually in.

2. Hey my last party last week was full of 80's music. If it was up to my parents the 60's classics would be on.
No idea about the Cuban nightclub music though

3. I've killed a man armed only with contact lenses.

4. That's one of the worst parts of the movie. Whilst I like GFIII this is one of it's worst flaws. Yes he would look and sound more suited with a Luger pistol.

5. I don't know. Love's a weird thing. But so is incest.

6. Bad judgement. Maybe he thought the Mafia rules in Sicily were like those in the US ie. you don't touch the family. By then he'd already relinquished his position as boss.

Some possible explanations:

1. He went out with his buddy Al in a bar and Al got drunk and confessed it.

2. He had the Sicilian cunning even at 10 years of age (or so) and he immediately understood what was about to happen when Connie told him to get off the boat.

3. Kay told him in order to make him leave his father.

4. He knew it all along - was following orders by Michael to keep Fredo close. This is the way he "made his bones".

5. Everybody knew (this is the most plausible answer by far). But then what's the point that Tony, in particular, knew about it?

In all seriousness let's look at Anthony's life. A young boy whose house is shot up. A party with soooo many people that he did not know. A father who goes out of town on business quite often. A fishing trip with his uncle where he is called away from at the very last minute. His uncle goes and supposedly dies in an accident. Neri lives. I imagine him going to school hearing the murmers about his Mafia father and his family. I'm sure tht there was gossip around the house about Fredo's act of betrayal and then his "accident." The boy witnessed his father's coldness towards uncle Freddie. Saw his father's power in having his mother banished from his home. Put all of these things together and I think that eventually anyone growing up that way, in that envirement, would evetually summize that their uncle was probably killed.


Don Cardi

That's right. However, given the fact that Michael's activities were widely known (remember Connie's line: "Read the papers!" in GFI or the Senate hearings in GFII), I think that it was easy for everyone to figure out what happened, not just Tony. But figuring out and knowing for sure are two different things.

Sometimes when family is involved, and something happens, deep down you "know" for sure. If your father is accused or suspected of doing something like that, and you grow up knowing that he was responsible for murders and killings, and then an uncle who was accused of betraying your father is first mistreated by your father and then suddenly dies while in the company of your father's most trusted associate, you grow up "knowing" what really happened.

Remember, even his daughter Mary asks Vincent if it was true that her father killed his own brother. So that in itself tells me that there was "whispering" talk of this over the years and that even she eventually suspected that there was some truth to what she had heard.


Don Cardi

Considering the type of man Michael became in GFII, and all the circumstances leading up to Fredo's death, it's easy to surmise how Anthony knew about his uncle's death. How could he not know? How could anyone not put two and two together in this situation. When you consider the Senate Committee hearings broadcast on national television, Anthony seeing his father's face on the TV, reading the stories in the newspaper, hearing the whispering probably going around his school. The teachers knew who Anthony was, they knew what his last name meant (assuming Anthony and Mary attended public schools.). With all the gossip, and all the publicity, plus maybe hearing all the talk going around the compound, there's no way Anthony wouldn't find out. And Kay definitely knew what happened, she was a smart woman, and she knew what Fredo did. Considering Michael was taking out all his enemies, it was only a matter of time before he whacked Fredo. As much of a shock as it probably came to them (c'mon, Fredo is Mike's brother), I don't think anyone was surprised. Kay, in her sheer disgust for Michael, probably verified Anthony's suspicions on what happened to uncle Freddie. In short, it's impossible that Anthony wouldn't know.

Even though it is just a movie, I think the foregoing posts prompt a legitimate question: what struggle did Anthony go through knowing or, at least, strongly surmising, that his dad was a murderer not of strangers but of his dear uncle? He must have been tormented. His reproof of his father at the Commendatore party ("I'll always be your son, but I will never have anything to do with your business")was, by any measure, quite mild. I wonder what I would do in a similar situation.

he was supposed to be italian? i always just assumed he was somebusiness partner for keinzeg or someting like that. in absolutely no way does appear to be italian.

speaking of luchesse, i also have always wondered about his murder. i know rocco's hit on roth is often referred to as a "suicide mission" but at least he had a slight chance to get out of the airport alive. what was calo's plan for getting out alive from luchesse's compound alive? he was unarmed and in the midst of what i would assume would be dozens of armed luchesse guards and he thought he could just walk in, stab him with the glasses, and walk out unharmed? calo wasn't even in michael's family. he appeared to still be in tommassino's family, so why would he volunteer to give his life? especially when michael wasn't even in charge anymore. vincent ordered the hit. calo probably had never even heard of vincent and all of a sudden he's willing to die for him? doesn't make much sense to me.

No, at least this makes sense. Lucchese (along with Altobello) was responsible for the death of Tomassino and Calo volunteered to take orders from Vincent to avenge his master's death. What does not make sense at all is the method of execution.

Tomassino's death was pure coincident. Remember, that when Calo brought Michael the news of his death, he asked Michael to command him. When Michael passed control of the Corleone family to Vincent I think it would be naive to believe that suddenly Michael was powerless and without influence.

I have another Observation

Why did it suck so much?

LOL. This sums it up really well.

i didn't mean to imply that michael was without power, but rather that he had "handed over" the family, so to speak, to vincent. in the original, tessio, who had served practically a whole lifetime under vito, betrayed him by conspiring to have his son killed because sal never really had any allegience to the new boss, michael. in gf 3, however, calo, who was only with michael a year in sicily, volunteers to give up his life for michael, someone with whom calo has very little experience, and vincent, someone he has no allegiance to. it doesn't make much sense to me. but i at least think michele's explanation sounds plausible. but either way, this is more of a side note anyways. the main question i meant to ask, was what exactly was calo's escape plan. by the time of gf3, the corleones were the most powerful crime family in the world and the best idea they can come up with for a hit is to just walk in, stab the guy with his glasses, and hope you don't get killed? and they expected us to like this?

Calo did not give up his life for Michael or Vincent. Calo gave up his life for Don Tommassino, out of shear revenge and payback. And Calo knew that Michael had a strong bond with Don Tommassino, so Calo used the situation created by The Corleone's to avenge Tommassino's death. Nothing more.


Don Cardi

Calo did not give up his life for Michael or Vincent. Calo gave up his life for Don Tommassino, out of shear revenge and payback. And Calo knew that Michael had a strong bond with Don Tommassino, so Calo used the situation created by The Corleone's to avenge Tommassino's death. Nothing more.


Don Cardi [/QUOTE]

ok. i can accept this. i still think this looks stupid in the movie though, because it takes the corleone family, a powerful, respected mafia organization and turns them into terrorists. it makes it seem as though the only way they can operate is to send their men on suicide missions. compare this to the baptism sequence in the original and it doesn't hold a candle.

See, I think that what you just posted is EXACTLY the problem. Too many people expected GFIII to live up to the first two movies. There is no comparison whatsoever. You cannot watch GFIII and expect the greatness of GFI and GFII. GFIII is exactly what the title says; a third movie in a series. So therefore why can't people just take this movie for what it is? A third movie. When GFII was made there was still a lot that had to be told. When GFIII was made, there really was nothing left to tell, so a new storyline needed to be made with only references and timelines attaching it to the first two blockbusters. If you really think about it, unlike GFI and GFII, GFIII could have actually been a movie that stood on it's own. It is no where near being a great movie, but I also think that it gets a really bad rap and that it wasn't a horrible movie.


Don Cardi

DC, I must agree with you. I actually have great affection for GF3, with the exception of Sofia's acting. I find that there are some very compelling scenes. However, you can't compare it with the majesty that are the first two films.

What I thought was interesting was the "Making of Godfather III" that HBO did when the movie was first released. It was very interesting to hear FFC speak about Michael as if he were a living and breathing person. He was talking about his quest for redemption, and what motivated him to do so. It was fascinating, almost as if he was Dr. Frankenstein talking about his creation.

I didn't like the movie, not because it didn't live up to the first two, but because it had so many flaws. I like the idea of Michael seeking redemption.

1. I can't follow what's going on. I read reviews by well-known movie reviewers, and they had no clue. I listened to Coppola's commentary and still can't follow.

2. There are too many new characters. This adds to the problem of number 1.

3. Sofia Coppola was horrible. I don't care about her looks. I care about her performance. There is no chemistry between her character and Vincent.

4. Incest. Enough said. I don't care what is acceptable in Europe as I've seen on some boards.

5. Al Pacino. It's hard to accept the older Michael. His voice has been ravaged by cigarettes. We didn't get to see him age.

6. Connie. How did she get to be a big shot? Talia Shire is the queen of over doing it. Have we seen her in anything besides the GF and Rocky movies?

7. Straying from the original novel. Sonny never had a child with Lucy. Hence, no Vincent. Michael had two boys in the novel. No Mary. Part II ruined that.

8. Unrealistic. The helicopter scene where the stars survive. Too much like an action flick. Killing someone with glasses?

See, I think that what you just posted is EXACTLY the problem. Too many people expected GFIII to live up to the first two movies. There is no comparison whatsoever. You cannot watch GFIII and expect the greatness of GFI and GFII. GFIII is exactly what the title says; a third movie in a series. So therefore why can't people just take this movie for what it is? A third movie. When GFII was made there was still a lot that had to be told. When GFIII was made, there really was nothing left to tell, so a new storyline needed to be made with only references and timelines attaching it to the first two blockbusters. If you really think about it, unlike GFI and GFII, GFIII could have actually been a movie that stood on it's own. It is no where near being a great movie, but I also think that it gets a really bad rap and that it wasn't a horrible movie.


Don Cardi [/QUOTE]

actually i agree with you EXACTLY. i do like gf 3 as a whole compared to many other movies, i just think this certain scene (calo killing luchesse) seems like something ffc took about 5 minutes to think of w/o putting any real thought into the scene at all. i'm not comparing the two movies, just certain scenes that parallel each other in the two movies (the hit sequence in 1 and the hit sequence in 3). they were directed by the same person, so why is it so crazy to expect the director who did such a wonderful job with the baptism hit sequence to produce the same results with a nearly idential sequence?

FFC took about 30 minutes to write the whole movie. He did not really care about the quality of the movie as his wine vinyards were in dire financial trouble and he was desperate to make some $$ to help out his vinyard business. He never went into the movie with any real effort and care, for it was just a cash cow for him in a time of financial need.


Don Cardi

Not really - Al was Michael's head of security / chief bodyguard, he probably has weapons concealed close at hand so that he can grab them when the need arises.

His face is concealed by his helmet until he lifts the visor to shoot Saza. I'm guessing the choice of police uniform had something to do with Al Neri's connections, since he carries out a hit dressed a cop in GFI.

The suicide missions and the stupid killing of Lucchesi make sense. Lucchesi was a powerful Sicilian Don and could not be easily approached. Storming in like Rambo would fail too. So it had to be sneaky... They attacked the man in his own fortress, that's like Barzini's men walking into the Corleone mall.

which never happened in any of the movies because puzo realized it would be completely ridiculous. but once ffc didn't have puzo to help him with ideas, we see what he was capable of coming up with.