I'm with you on this one Plaw.

He screwed up so many timelines, so many references, and the book had so many inconsistancies. He proved that he did NOT do his homework. He did not have a passion for this movie as we do. Nothing that he's said or done with regards to The Godfather is valid in my eyes. Nothing.

For pete's sake at the very begining, when we all started reading this book, we ALL picked up the same mistake. I don't recall exactly what it was, but something to do with mixing up someone who was in Clemenza's regime with Tessio's regime. A detail that the average GF fan would know.

This guy sucked in plain english.

At least GFIII had some consistancy to it, and it somewhat continued the story of most of the characters from I and II.

Godfather III blows The Godfather Returns away big time.

What's that tell you?


Don Cardi

And another thing, ( now you got me all wound up about this Winegardner, Plaw) this guy was handed a whole base of characters on a silver platter! Characters that FFC and Puzo developed in GFII. Characters like Pentangeli, Hyman Roth, etc. that most Godfather fans would have loved to know more detail about. Instead this money making opportunist drops the ball and spends 1/4 of the book on a Nick Geraci, another 1/4 on Sonny's daughters ( which he screwed up also ) and another 1/4 on Fredo being gay! Give me a break.

The guy didn't even know how to take the ball and run with it. No one in his path and he fumbles BIG time!

Don't get me started Plaw about Godfather Returns.

A disgrace to the Godfather Legacy.


Don Cardi

Too bad, DC. He's getting another crack at sh*tting on the GF films by way of The Godfather's Revenge...

I thought you were breaking my b**ls here. THen I do a search and find out that you are telling the truth! OMG!
Here:
"The Corleones are coming back. Using the assassination of President Kennedy as a plot element, a new novel by Mark Winegardner, who wrote the 2004 best seller "The Godfather Returns" with the permission of the estate of Mario Puzo, is in the works. G. P. Putnam's Sons, an imprint of Penguin Group U.S.A., expects to publish "The Godfather's Revenge" next year."

I love the part in this article that says : "..who wrote the 2004 BEST SELLER The Godfather Returns.


A month after it's original release, you could find them all over the bargain book tables.


Don Cardi

I won't waste my money again.

It was only a best-seller because it said GODFATHER on the cover... Obviously.

Yes you will. Just like I will. We're GF whores. See my post about exactly this over in the GF Returns Thread.


Don Cardi

You're damn right, too.

I'm with you on this one Don Cardi, Plaw, and others. Really I have not liked the Winegardner's novel.
I only wanted to solve some doubts about ranks and hierarchies . Already I have understood that Clemenza and Pentangeli are caporegimes always (though Mike does not reside in NY).

A question:If Zaza does not belong to the Corleone family (I suppose that he belongs to the Barzini or Stracci family) who was going to be the successor of Mike in the Corleone family before Vincent's arrival?
Thanks in advance

I understand the reason for the thread Julio, but if you imply again that Weingardner's book is in any way, shape, or form, authoritative or "official", or include any of his characters or ideas in another timeline or discussion, then I may have to kill you (j/k).



(Sorry, this is a bit of a sore spot with me.)

BTW....excellent point, Don Cardi, about all of those characters on the silver platter.

Maybe "The Return of The Godfather's Return" will be better.

As far as your question above goes, Julio.....

The movie doesn't give us an answer, so we can only speculate.

From the end of the novel, I have the impression that the Barzini and Tattaglia families are "broken up", altho GF II contradicts this when Neri (I think it was) saya to Michael at one point that Fabrizzio's entrance to the United States was sponsored by the Barzini Family.

My guess is that Zasa was an "up-and-comer" within the Corleone Family itself, a Capo perhaps, who was considered capable of taking over the NY operations, and was granted a large (but not complete) degree of autonomy to do so, in exchange for a percentage of profits to Michael.

As far as who would run the family upon Michael's death goes, I think Michael figured by the time he passed on that the family would be completely legitimate, and aside from lawyers and executives to look after the family business interests, there would be no need for anyone to run the family in the way that you're thinking.

Probably a top executive along the lines of someone who was capable of heading a company like General Motors or U.S. Steel would have done the trick.

Wasn't Zasa an upcoming protegé of Altobelle who was also a Capo in the Corleone family, like other Capi like Clemenza, Rocco and Pentangeli?

Zasa and Altobello were allies, as we learn later, but I don't think that there is any indication that he was a protegé of Altobello, or that Altobello is part of Michael's crime family in any way.

Michael was the most powerful organized crime leader in America, so all of the other Dons were, in a sense, "under" him or, to an extent, his "rule", but I don't see where Altobello was a Capo under Michael or anything like that.

Wat was the deal then about Altobello? Was he a Corleone-friend who took over the Barzini, Tattaglia, Cuneo, or Stracci familiy?

Or...maybe has was Capo of the 6th family.
There you go Plaw, I solved your mistery.
There are indeed 6 families. But the sixth worked somehow together with the Corleone. So they weren't punished in the 5-families-murder.
Zasa was a capo, or underboss that eventually took over the family after Altobello retired on a way Vito also did.

Comparing the Cosa Nostra structure of the movie to the reality, I think that all 5 Families must continue existing, with the same name or with different name for each one. I was going to post a thing about this topic but I will not do it because it is based on Winegardner, and already I know that I am cordially and politely threatened

In the Godfather III, Al Neri says to Mike, after the Commission: “The old Dons were pretty much wiped out. The ones that survived, made deals with Joey Zasa”. In fact I don´t know if Zaza is within Corleone family or if he is a strange .

Yes, Mike tries to retire and to legitimize his (real) family. But I think that the structure of all 5 Families should not break because the 5 families always will exist. So I suppose that the " criminal part " of the Corleone family is transfered and directed by other persons, like for example Zasa.

Altobello was a boss of the Tattaglia Family (according to Winegardner ). He took over from Rico Tattaglia, Phillip´s brother