Thank you

DMC has decided to come out of retirement and play, I remember the grief I went through last year for not playing

You tell 'em SB, who does Cardi think he is, a waiter at the Double Tree!

Oh, so now you're going to use the ole gender card, huh? When it suits you than it's ok?

DMC IS playing. So what's your excuse?

Don Cardi

I know I can count on you to defend me. I'm so shy and retiring, I need a big, strong man like you to speak for me, DMC. I'm like a delicate little flower that will just wilt away if DC tries to bully me like that.

You call him your boytoy. But this is a fantasy baseball thread. So you'll have to fantasize about him being your BATBOY.


Don Cardi

So many comments, so little time.......lol

I keep telling you guys that I am too intimidated to play Fantasy Baseball. Too many rules, and I am very shy about asking questions.

You could just use JG's strategy and pick the cutest guys.....I've been the number one pick the last 2 years

Please, I have nightmares about forgetting to pick, or picking poorly, or not trading, or having too many or too few of something or someone.

I joined the league... My team is "hGH United"

The Games Started category is actually a category that Yahoo allows point for. Since Plaw didn't want Yahoo's max innings pitch limit, he allowed for 1 point for every game started by a starting pitcher. Once a player reached 162 starts (combined for all his pitchers), Plaw, JG and I urged them to sit all their starters since we had a 162-game started self-imposed limit. This is what I was speaking of when I said it was a manual process (as opposed to the max innings limit method - once you reach the max innings, Yahoo stops counting stats no matter what). In your example of Roy Oswalt, if we were playing by last year's rules, his 35 starts would have counted towards your overall 162 start limit. If we go with an innings rule, his innings from the 35 starts would count towards the max innings limit.

Of course none of this applies to regular players. For everyday players, they are limited to 162 games whether they started or not.

The problem with max innings is that if you set it at 900 (lets say) and you have 899 used, you can start a pitcher the next day and he can pitch 9 innings and you'll get credit for all 9.

I wonder if you have 899 and have 2 pitchers starting at the same time in 2 games if you'll get credit for both.

i'm in - Fightin' Phils

Come to think of it, maybe Plaw's way does make the most sense. It really doesn't become an issue until the end of the season, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal, right? Some (non-contenders) went over by a game or two once they stopped playing last season, but I could monitor this now and act accordingly...

I agree - it is the best way, but I never liked the manual aspect of it.

In any case, I'm fine either way. If you decide to go manual, I'll help with the reminders at the end of the season.

As long as you are willing to monitor it, then that format is fair enough for me.

Now how do you monitor middle relievers and closers?


Don Cardi

Why would there be a reason to monitor relief pitching?

Don't see a reason for that either. However if as originally planned, if a limit for INNINGS PITCHED was implemented, wouldn't that include the innings pitched by your middle relievers and your closers?



Don Cardi

I ASSumed the innings pitched limit would be for starters only. It wouldn't make any sense to limit relief pitchers.

Assuming we have an innings pitched limit, it should be for the entire staff - starting pitchers and relief pitchers. In my opinion, if the goal of fantasy baseball is to simulate real-world baseball, then the number of innings pitched for a fantasy baseball staff should closely follow the number of innings pitched for a real-world staff (162 x 9 innings + allowance for extra innings).

I know I keep going back and forth on this but the point made by JL reminded me of another reason why I preferred the innings limit last year. The 162-games started method prevents manipulation of starting pitching but not relief pitchers. Only an innings pitch limit prevents the manipulation of both.

I go back to preferring the innings pitched limit.

Check back again with me tomorrow when I switch again.

I've never heard of a fantasy league that restricts relief pitching other than the number of relievers you can use in one day. It's JMO, but putting an inning limit on relief pitching is silly and unrealistic.

I've returned to the Dark Side.......

Now remember Cardi, since you signed up for Fantasy Sports you have to cancel all vacations.....

Yeah, I don't understand what limiting RP innings is good for either... How can you "manipulate" anything if you can only have a certain # of RPs in your lineup at any given time?

I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from, JL.

Wouldn't putting an inning limit for an entire staff be more realistic than say not having an inning limit and have someone go through waivers everyday to make sure that all RP positions are active that day? To me, the latter is unrealistic.

Just to make sure, I don't think anyone is talking about an innings limit on just relief pitchers. The limit would be for the entire staff and would closely estimate the number of innings pitched for an entire season for the average baseball team (some number slightly above 1,458 innings (9 x 162)).

Once you have you're 1500 or so innings, you can spend it anyway you like.

Or am I not understanding your concern?

I think he means by constantly picking up and dropping Relief Pitchers

Please see my reply above to JL. I'm not proposing to limit the innings pitched by relief pitchers. I'm proposing to limit the innings pitched by the entire staff. This limit should be reasonable (i.e. it should mirror the number of innings pitched by MLB teams for an entire season).

Here's the manipulation: Assume we have no limits on pitching. Someone could theoretically go through waivers each and everyday to make sure that all their SP and RP spots filled, because we are in a points league and even a 1 point outing is better than 0 points.

Agreed that we want to prevent this?

The answer is either limiting the number of games started or the number of innings pitched. The Games Started limit solves the problem for starting pitchers but it does nothing for the person who wants to fill their RP spots everyday.

If we go with an innings pitched limit, we prevent it for both SPs and RPs.

I agree that neither way is perfect, but in my opinion, one is better than the other.

To answer DMC, picking up and dropping relief pitchers isn't going to help. You can only use limited amount per day anyway. Considering teams play almost everyday and there's no guarantee that a relief pitcher is going to pitch anyway, picking up waiver wire relievers everyday at the end of the season isn't going to get you anywhere.

As for the limit on innings, there is no possible way to know how many innings your starters are going to pitch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but counting relief innings pitched is going to punish people with excellent starters. If you have great starting pitchers that make it past the 7th inning in most of their starts, your relief pitchers are going to be an almost non-factor by the end of the season. People with mediocre starting pitching are going to be rewarded with extra innings for their relievers. I guess neither way is perfect. As long as it's decided before the draft so we can draft accordingly.

I didn't say if it was going to help or hurt anyone, I was just pointing out what Moderator DB meant when he said manipulating.

I know in theory you could possibly try and manipulate RP, but IMO it isn't going to work.

If there is concern about someone maipulating their pitching staff by dropping and signing relief pitchers, or pitchers for that matter, then set a limit on moves. That will stop any attempt at manipulating the free agent / waiver market.

What are there, approximately 26 weeks in the season? So set the max number of moves to something like 52 which would average 2 moves per week.

I really don't agree with setting a max innings pitched which would include releivers. Heck, a manager can use a relief pitcher almost every game if he really wants to.


Don Cardi

On other question on an innings based limit. What would prevent an owner that has a shitty bullpen from using all starting pitchers (or vice-versa) to eat up his innings?