Beyond the majic bullets and all the other distractions you can find your true answer as to what happened in Texas by looking at one man. His name is Jack Ruby. Jack was notorius for killing Lee Harvey in the Dallas Police Department Basement when he was being moved. Now ask yourself why would Jack Ruby a well to do nightclub owner
who had money, women and association with the mob throw away everything he had worked for to kill some guy who was rumored at the time to have killed the president. The answer is quite simple. Ruby became friends with Lee Harvey before the hit occurred. Ruby had lose lips and told Lee Harvey more than he should have heard. Lee more than likely dismissed Ruby as a big talker. But when it happened Lee realized the significance of what had just happened. Imagine your Lee Harvey. You have just been fingered for killing JFK and your plastered all over TV and Police Radio. I dont know about you but if I were him the last thing I would do is hang around Dallas to see the sights if you know what I mean. When Lee Harvey heard of JFK he decided to call police and surrender as a material witness at the theatre. When police picked up Lee Harvey Ruby crapped a brick. Lee harvey knew the who, what, when, where and why of the entire incident. When Ruby told the organization of what he had done they simply told him to kill Lee Harvey ASAP or they would kill him and then kill Lee Harvey. So for Ruby he could get three hots and a cot or die right now! The choice for Ruby was a simple one. When Lee Harvey was in the process of being moved by the Feds it was for protective purposes for his testimony
against all involved. This was Jacks only chance to stop Lee Harvey from providing any further details to the Feds. Once you take this veiw into account you will now know the overall answer to who hit JFK! A helpful hint is it was not Castro!

The conspiracy theories surrounding JFK are so many and so convoluted they make my head ache just trying to read about it!
And i HAVE tried to read several books on the matter...

Ruby's relations were the mob were much more tenuous than you're implying...he wasn't a made man, and he was largely in debt and out of favor with Marcello in New Orleans.



Why would Jack Ruby have anything to do with the virtually anonymous Lee Harvey Oswald? They had no reason to even know each other. Oswald's uncle I believe did have a link to Trafficante, which has led some to think he was recruited and then made into the obvious scapegoat for the crime (regardless of whether he was the lone gunman or not).



Ruby had loose lips? This is a pretty big accusation considering that Ruby was in prison and remained silent from 1964 up until his death in 1967. Jim Garrison couldn't get to him during his investigations, if I'm not mistaken, and this is mentioned in Oliver Stone's JFK.



Oswald was assassinating the President of the United States...I fail to see how he wouldn't have "realized the significance" of what he was doing when he was preparing for it.



Oswald was correct; he was a "patsy" for the larger conspiracy, whomever it involved.



Then why did he kill that Dallas cop? Why was he acting so suspiciously? If he wanted out of Dallas, why did he go to the theatre where he knew he'd be caught?



No he didn't. He knew exactly what his job was - he attended the press conference, made sure that the public knew Oswald was involved in the "Fair Play for Cuba" organization, and then used his ties with the Dallas police department to get into that garage and then kill Oswald, leaving him the only link to the crime, and he (repeatedly) refused to talk, despite your claim that he had "loose lips."



It's true Ruby had an ultimatum, from his higher ups - either be whacked by them, or kill Oswald and remain silent in prison.



Not really. Once you look at your "veiw" [sic] it's full of holes...

• Why would Jack Ruby, a nightclub owner, act on his own and order the death of the President?
• Jack Ruby didn't know Lee Harvey Oswald.
• Oswald was complicit in the assassination to a degree - he knew he was a patsy, and he knew his job was to kill the President...there was no qualms or trepidations.
• Why have you removed Castro from the list of suspects? Your argument does little to supplement any links between Ruby and organize crime but it especially doesn't provide any evidence either way that Castro, Lyndon B. Johnson, the military-industrial complex, the Soviets, the Cuban exiles, etc. weren't involved.

I suggest you read "Deep Politics and the Death of JFK," by Peter Dale Scott, "Live by the Sword" by Gus Russo, "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner, "A Farewell to Justice" by Joan Mellen, "Contract on America" by David Scheim, and "Ultimate Sacrifice" by Hartman and Waldron. Whether or not I agree with any of these texts is irrelevant, but they should give you a decent overview of the prevailing theories on the death of JFK.

Best,
Double-J

Scott McClellan's(former bush press secretary) father was one of LBJ's top attorneys and wrote a book a few yrs ago detailing LBJ's part in the conspiracy. Oswald was there, but there were TWO shooters in the school book dep. I read it but can't remember the author's first name or the name of the book.

Again, its by Scott McClellan's daddy though.

Seems unlikely if we're to take what the witnesses at the grassy knoll say...the whole point was triangulation (if you don't believe in the lone gunman theory). Why would they risk two men in the school book depository, and why hasn't this ever come up in in the testimony of eyewitnesses in or near the depository?

All of these conspiracy theories about JFK end up contradicting one another in the end. Yet another reason I subscribe to the 'chaos/politicians are really aliens theory'. Here is Scott McClellan's dad's book.

Blood, Money, Power
by Barr McClellan(Scott's daddy)

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/mcclellan.htm


It is VERY entertaining at the least.

The JFK "conspiracy" is so plausible however because, unlike other events of this scale, there is quite a bit of evidence to support a variety of outcomes, and so many coincidences that may have either been standard (albeit secret) government protocol or the work of a larger conspiracy.

Not really. Once you look at your "veiw" [sic] it's full of holes...

• Why would Jack Ruby, a nightclub owner, act on his own and order the death of the President?
• Jack Ruby didn't know Lee Harvey Oswald.
• Oswald was complicit in the assassination to a degree - he knew he was a patsy, and he knew his job was to kill the President...there was no qualms or trepidations.
• Why have you removed Castro from the list of suspects? Your argument does little to supplement any links between Ruby and organize crime but it especially doesn't provide any evidence either way that Castro, Lyndon B. Johnson, the military-industrial complex, the Soviets, the Cuban exiles, etc. weren't involved.

George Bluth was a patsy too. I feel bad.

Flyer circulated in Dallas TX on Nov.21,1963




'THE WINK'(Oh so sorry Jackie this is a tough business though )Congressman Albert Thomas winks at a grinning LBJ who stands next to his brightly smiling wife as he is sworn is as President. All of this in the presence of a grieving Jackie Kennedy. I wonder why she claims to have lived the rest of her life in great fear.

hmmmm all this is really interesting but i doubt we'll ever kno what really happened

I'm no expert on any of this, but while searching for info on the East German woman JFK was seeing in 1963, I found this. Lots of info about LBJ, and a great URL name too

http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_221.html

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.

Here's my boy Bill Hicks on the assassination.
I hope you ppl join us all someday!


Bill Hicks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQBus_RKZ9E

It's important to keep certain facts staright. To wit:

The "Police Department basement" is actually the old Dallas City Hall basement. I used to work in the old Dallas City Hall and I walked through that basement on more than one occasion

Jack Ruby at one point operated three nightclubs. Only the Carousel did well. He lived in an aaprtment. I would not classify him as a well to do.

As I'ver stated in other posts, my uncle was actually a wiseguy in Cleveland. Does that mean I am associated with the mob? What associates one with the mob?

Lee Harvey Oswald's picture and description were not "plastered" all over the media until after he was arrested for the murder of Dallas police officer Tippet. Prior to that arrest, Dallas police were directed to look for a white male wearing pants and a light colored shirt.

Death by lethal injection did not exist in Texas at the time in question.

The "Feds" did not move Oswald for security reasons. The Feds had no jurisdication. At the time of his move from Dallas City Hall he was only charged with murdering the Officer Tippet and was a suspect in the murder of JFK. The murder of JFK was a violation of Texas statute; there was no similar US statute. He was being moved to the Dallas County Jail as all alledged felons are eventually.

Just got back from Dealey Plaza about an hour ago. Me and a friend argued: there is no way a second gunman could have hoisted a rifle and fired a shot from behind the fence adjacent to the train yard and not have been noticed. No way!

Wink?
Grin?
There's no wink or grin in that photo.
Christ,
LBJ doted on jackie. She had nothing to fear from him.
LBJ retained JFK's cabinet and offered RFK the option of staying on.
Some Coup D'tat.

Ruby was not a gangster and oswald was the typical loser assassin..


I suppose Meyer Lansky is in that photo as well.

HL Hunt was the man behind that Flyer/Newspaper ad.

Ditto.

I think Fredo and Johnny Ola did it.

The JFK assassination is something that's fascinated me for over 20 years, ever since we skimmed through it in history at school. In the scant time we spent on it, I read Anthony Summer's 'The Kennedy Conspiracy' as backup and became engrossed. Since then I've read countless accounts, watched many documentaries and have even read a high portion of the Warren Report at Manchester Central Library.

There is an excellent documentary, made in 1989 and updated in 2003, called The Men Who Killed Kennedy. I believe that the History Channel broadcast three episodes in 2003 and were forced to take it off their repeat schedules and screen rebuttal shows. While that doesn't surprise me at all, I do think that everone should be given the opportunity of seeing these episodes. The original 1989 episodes can be purchased at Amazon.co.uk, but the 2003 updates can be found here.

Witnesses such as Beverly Oliver have come forward to state that yes, Ruby knew Oswald prior to the assassination. The second episode of the 2003 updates will also give you the story of a lady that, although fantastic and sometimes very hard to stomach, also fills a few gaps regarding Oswald's trip to Mexico City and his frantic attempts to get into Cuba.

What do I think? The Mob were involved, and Ruby was the go-between. I also believe he was given the 'kill or be killed' order, but both scenarios eventually prevailed. LBJ's involvement? Not really convinced I'm afraid.

However, the key to this is an open mind and I always keep one.

It's actually available on DVD as a two-disc set...I know, because I own it. It's through A&E and the History Channel, I believe.



I too think that the mob was involved in some way, certainly because of the politics involved in the failed Cuban invasion and the problems with Castro. Given that JFK "agreed" to not invade after the Missile Crisis, it may have signaled to guys like Trafficante, Marcello, and Giancana that their interests in Havana were gone for good.

David Scheim has an excellent book called Contract on America, which details the mob's role in the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations (yes, that's quite a few "k's"). Also, for the Cuban connections, I "recommend" (its a fascinating read, but I don't know how much I really believe it) Gus Russo's Live By The Sword. I still have so much work to do on my senior thesis that I haven't finished it (I received it for Christmas a couple of years ago), but the Lamar Waldrom/Thom Hartman Ultimate Sacrifice does a nice job of tying the mob/cuban connections together, plus it has some good stuff from Harry Ruiz Williams.

My problem, outside of the general conspiracy, is still the day of the assassination. Gerald Posner's Case Closed really is troublesome for me, because I've always been fascinated with the grassy knoll and the umbrella man, but he does a pretty convincing job in proving the lone-gunman theory (particularly that the magic bullet really wasn't "magic"). I don't know. I'm one of those who are desperately waiting for more evidence to be released, but even though I'm in my early 20's, it still may be ages before we get anything really meaningful to go on.

The works cited about organizeed crime's alledged involvement simply focus on its members' possible motivations. They provide no evidence, just anecdotal information. The book Case Closed by Gerald Posner demolishes such information.

True, but most of the conspiratorial topics don't ever discuss evidence, but merely assert or assume motives, which is probably more important (and ultimately, more difficult to determine) who wanted JFK dead, rather than how it happened.

Well, the problem with that is that there are always a considerable number of people who have grievances against a President. Speculating on who would have sufficient grievances is a mind game, but that's all. It might be fun for some, but alot of conspiracy buffs are really serious and think they know.

Pirates: 3-0

True, but it is really the only meaningful research, given that the assassination itself (i.e. the physical murder of the president) still continues to boggle the mind, and probably will never be truly revealed, whether or not one believes or disbelieves in the grassy knoll, the umbrella man, etc., unless some new, mysterious, impromptu evidence surfaces...

I've wondered if technology may some day make it possible for us to see the bullets on the Zapruder film.

The technology probably exists. Who knows? They're probably working on it now.

Double J, I'm interested in your opinion of Juditn Vary Baker's story. Do you give it any credence? As I said before, it ties a whole lot of loose ends right up.

Is she the one who claims to have seen the gunman on the grassy knoll? I can't remember. There was a book (if its her) where she described her story to a ghostwriter, called "The Last Witness" or something like that.

I'll have to watch the DVD again, I haven't seen it in years. Let me get back to you on that.

Judith Vary Baker was the lady who claimed to have had an intimate affair with Oswald. She was a cancer scientist, employed by the CIA to create a virus essentially to give to Castro through a CIA plant in his medical staff.

She gave an account of the work she did, Oswald's (and Ruby's) involvement in the project and also those that touched the Garrison investigation including Clay Shaw and David Ferrie.

If she is lying, it's the most compelling and fantastic lie I've ever heard.

You're kidding! I've never heard of her or the tale she spins. Almost every minute of Oswald's life from the Marines on is accounted for. Where does she fit in with her affair?