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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: DonMichaelCorleone]
#386155
04/17/07 09:37 PM
04/17/07 09:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907 Born on the Bayou
Saladbar
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
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I'm going to say something, and I'm sorry if it causes controversy. But I think part of the reason for that is because of all of the new ideas in school. You can't play dodgeball because kids feel left out, kids are suspended for WEEKS for fighting, and it leads to things like this. We try and shield them from violence and it doesn't work. I've had problems with tons of people in my life, and I've been in enough hand to hand fights in my life, and you know what? It usually ENDS THERE. The problem is that kids like this don't have that, and they get all of this rage built up inside of them and they have to take it out in ways like this. There are people on this message board who weren't picked for dodgeball, are they mad or depressed people? NO, they got over it and found something else to be good at.
I think not allowing these kids to fight or do something to get anger out is what causes things like shooting someone 3 times. Thats much different then the news report of him just opening fire and the bullets were sprayed, for people to be hit 3 times he had to hold the gun there.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard I'm not sure if I should even reply. If this guy was allowed to play dodgeball none of this would have happened? Genocides and mass murders don't just happen in sterilized school environments, lunatics aren't healed that easily.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: svsg]
#386165
04/17/07 09:47 PM
04/17/07 09:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907 Born on the Bayou
Saladbar
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
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Moral judgment aside, how is that bad writing? He has started writing it like a script with attention to action, then packed in a lot of conversations which is suitable for plays. I think the play is hilarious, though obviously very unsuitable for a class assignment. A few examples: "Taking off her shoes she hits him hard"How does one hit someone hard while you're taking off your shoes? "He brushes Sue with his large arm and build"And how do you brush someone with your large arm and build?
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: goombah]
#386168
04/17/07 09:51 PM
04/17/07 09:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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I skimmed the last few pages, and didn't see if this was posted, but, has the school said why they didn't shutdown or make an announcement, or at the very least warn the people on this campus? I was talking about it with a friend at work today, and my Principal joined in the conversation totally on the school's side (understandbly I guess  ). I know nothing about Virginia Tech. He kept saying that place is a "city" you can't close it down, they don't have P.A. systems and that it would be impossible. I don't know, I'd have gotten a bullhorn or something if I had to warn people. If even one person was saved because of it, it'd be worth it. It's hard not to blame someone, and seemingly impossible to understand why this sort of thing happens. This guy had problems to be sure. I heard that his parents were caring loving people, and if that's the case, I can imagine how they are kicking themselves right now for not noticing he had problems and/or the extent of his problems. Saladbar, I'm with you as far as losing a child. Under any circumstance the pain would be totally unbearable, but losing them in this way has another level of horror and pain. TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: DonMichaelCorleone]
#386175
04/17/07 10:03 PM
04/17/07 10:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098 Existential Well
svsg
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
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I'm going to say something, and I'm sorry if it causes controversy. But I think part of the reason for that is because of all of the new ideas in school. You can't play dodgeball because kids feel left out, kids are suspended for WEEKS for fighting, and it leads to things like this. We try and shield them from violence and it doesn't work. I've had problems with tons of people in my life, and I've been in enough hand to hand fights in my life, and you know what? It usually ENDS THERE. The problem is that kids like this don't have that, and they get all of this rage built up inside of them and they have to take it out in ways like this. There are people on this message board who weren't picked for dodgeball, are they mad or depressed people? NO, they got over it and found something else to be good at.
I think not allowing these kids to fight or do something to get anger out is what causes things like shooting someone 3 times. Thats much different then the news report of him just opening fire and the bullets were sprayed, for people to be hit 3 times he had to hold the gun there.
What if social interaction only causes more grief to the depressed people? What if they don't want to fight, even if no one stops them? IMO, the loners and depressed people will be the last ones to enter into an argument or confrontation, let alone fight. And what makes you think all problems have easy solutions like going and beating up people? People who have never been in depression have no idea what it is like to interact in the society when the situation is hopeless. People in the middle of the social bell curve bounce back from tough situations, the deviants crumble, some only after they cause much damage.
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#386176
04/17/07 10:03 PM
04/17/07 10:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
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I could imagine that it would be difficult, TIS. There are 26,000 students, many of them commuters, and there must be students walking all over the campus. However, in 2 hours, how could they not have done anything?? Maybe they don't have a PA system, but they don't have a security staff that has radios and could be dispatched to warn people. The police had been called to the first murder scene. Could they not DRIVE through the campus making an announcement. Do they not have gates at the entrances and exits? Gates that could have been closed to prevent anyone from entering or exiting?
I understand that there would have been major difficulties in locking down a place that large with such an enormous population, but I still have to believe that in two hours, they could have accomplished something.
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Saladbar]
#386181
04/17/07 10:12 PM
04/17/07 10:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098 Existential Well
svsg
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
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A few examples:
"Taking off her shoes she hits him hard"
How does one hit someone hard while you're taking off your shoes?
I had to read the sentence again to spot the mistake, but on a casual reading, it did give me the idea of a woman taking off her shoes and hitting a man with the shoes .
"He brushes Sue with his large arm and build"
And how do you brush someone with your large arm and build?
 I have no idea what he means here. I am not saying he is Shakespeare, but frankly it is not as bad as it was pointed out to be. In fact, I would challenge a lot of people to write 10 pages of play or movie script that is as readable as this. Not as easy as it appears.
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Saladbar]
#386184
04/17/07 10:23 PM
04/17/07 10:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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I would be hardpressed to survive the death of my children. I can't imagine going on. Really.
Ditto! Just the thought alone gives me the chills. As for what DMC said, I don't think that he meant it in the literal sense. I don't think that he was saying that because a kid is not allowed to play dodgeball per say, they turn out like this maniac did. I believe that he was trying to bring out the point that in this day and age too many kids are coddled and overprotected. Seems that today many of the things that some of us older people partook in and were allowed to participate in as youngsters is now considered taboo. Many of the things that we participated in or did were normal things growing up. Now it seems that there is all this psyhcoanalysis going on about what is good or not good for young people to do. Too many restrictions have been placed on the younger generation of today. There is no question in my mind that the younger people today are under much more pressure than we were in our day. I believe that a lot of the restrictions and pressures that are put on the young people today is what drives some of them into self isolation. I think that all DMC was really trying to say was that society needs to lighten up on the young people of today and stop scrutinizing everything that they do and just let them be the people that they are supposed to be at their age. Not making an excuse here for what this maricon did, but just speaking in general terms as to what I believe DMC was trying to say.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#386185
04/17/07 10:24 PM
04/17/07 10:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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I could imagine that it would be difficult, TIS. There are 26,000 students, many of them commuters, and there must be students walking all over the campus. However, in 2 hours, how could they not have done anything?? Maybe they don't have a PA system, but they don't have a security staff that has radios and could be dispatched to warn people. The police had been called to the first murder scene. Could they not DRIVE through the campus making an announcement. Do they not have gates at the entrances and exits? Gates that could have been closed to prevent anyone from entering or exiting?
I understand that there would have been major difficulties in locking down a place that large with such an enormous population, but I still have to believe that in two hours, they could have accomplished something. So, when ever there is a murder anywhere, why not shut down whatever place in which it takes place like a city, right? How about we shut down New York or Dallas, or Philly? Shut down for what? By the time they make the first announcement it's all over. VT is in a city. So, we shut down not only the campus, but the City also. That's ridiculous. What's the warning by the way? So the next day someone gets shot. "Hey, shutdown the campus again. A week from now another person is killed. "Shut 'ur down again." How about when a rape occurs - shut down the campus. Well, no. In that case no guys allowed outside. How about that? Gates? Gates? A university with gates? Like the University of Pittsburgh? Like UT? Like UCLA? Oh, wait. How about Columbia or Harvard? And, of course, we know that whenever you "close the gates" the killings stop. That'll do it for sure!
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: svsg]
#386194
04/17/07 10:44 PM
04/17/07 10:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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How often do you see perfectly happy, social people doing acts of crime of this nature? Most serial killers are misfits in the society, have some psychological problem or the other.
This guy wasn't a serial killer. He was a mass murderer. Serial killers can be more readily profiled. In both the cases, it is not possible to profile before hand to prevent the crime. It will be like in 'Minority Report' movie then. As Beth pointed out, not all lonely/depressed people commit crimes. Though there are correlations between a child abuse victim turning into a serial rapist, not all survivors end up as sex offenders. It is only in hind sight that we link the two. I think the mapping is one way primarily or at least that is the only thing allowed legally today. I will be very angry if I am forced to undergo some therapy to conform to social mean. Have you seen 'A Clockwork Orange'? I think that movie perfectly sums up what such a society could lead to. The profiling for serial killers is done after the fact. This term was coined by and FBI behavioralist, Robert Ressler, who wrote a fascinating book about 15 years ago, Whoever Fights Monsters. In several high publicity cases he was able to get inside the mind of the serial killer, and from the precise nature of the murder, the selection of the victim, the location and time of the incident, he was able to know things about the killer, such as what his apartment and car looked like, what type of work the killer did, level of education and/or race or ethnicity. He applied an approach of behavioral science to tracking these killers after murders are committed. These profiles are used every day in attempting to solve crimes that have been committed. Certainly, there are many loners in this world and few erupt in such a fashion. But unlike the serial killer, the mass murderer tends to be as random as the victims he selects, like a tornado that sweeps through a town without warning.
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: svsg]
#386200
04/17/07 10:57 PM
04/17/07 10:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907 Born on the Bayou
Saladbar
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
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 I have no idea what he means here. I am not saying he is Shakespeare, but frankly it is not as bad as it was pointed out to be. In fact, I would challenge a lot of people to write 10 pages of play or movie script that is as readable as this. Not as easy as it appears. Not easy, that is true. I just expect more from an English Major and a good university. But, then again, he was an English Major at a technical university.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Don Cardi]
#386220
04/17/07 11:43 PM
04/17/07 11:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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Olivant, with all due respect, I think that you are going a bit overboard with your analogies.
I understand your point about this campus being so large that it may have been impossible to shut it down or put it into lockdown. And that just might be the case.
However something should have been done by the authorities to prevent some of those deaths. I would like to know what genius in law enforcement assumed that the shooter had left the campus and was on his way to leaving the state? How in the world does a trained law enforcement official make an assumption like that without any hard facts to back up that assumption?
Yes it's very easy to sit on the outside looking in and then play monday morning quarterback. But put yourself in the position of some of these parents. There was over a two hour window between the first shootings and the second round of shootings. And as a parent I would damn well would want answers as to why such a gap existed between shootings without any real attempt to inform or protect the people of that campus.
With all due respect, how would anyone know there was going to be a 2 minute window, a 2 hour window, a 2 day window, or no window? It doesn't matter what anyone's relationship is to anyone else. There was nothing to be done unless one wants to "shut down" whenever something happens. Where do you draw the line? How long for the shutdown? An hour, a day, a week?
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: olivant]
#386271
04/18/07 09:06 AM
04/18/07 09:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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With all due respect, how would anyone know there was going to be a 2 minute window, a 2 hour window, a 2 day window, or no window?
Exactly. How do you know for sure if the guy left the campus or not at that point? The guy had not been apprehended yet, and there was no way to know for sure if he had actually left the campus or not. Every decision that was made early in the morning was based on assumptions. Poor judgement. Absence of malice, yes, but very poor decisions were made.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Don Cardi]
#386272
04/18/07 09:09 AM
04/18/07 09:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762 Anytown, USA
goombah
OP
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OP

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
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Canceling classes might have been the smartest thing for them to do, half the school would have been off campus and the parts where there WERE students could have had policemen. It's very hard to "lockdown" a 2600 acre campus. But, there is no excuse for two hours to pass before sending out the first e-mail informing of the shooting that took place at 7:15am. It's not very hard to lockdown a 2600 acre campus. It is impossible. It is difficult enough to lockdown a few buildings, let alone an entire campus. However, I completely agree with DC that Va Tech and the police dropped the ball with its lax attitude in between the two sets of shootings. My Va Tech friend said that the administration always try to do everything in its power to suppress bad news (big or small), which is not altogether surprising. But this line of thinking bit them in the ass in a terrible way.
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Double-J]
#386284
04/18/07 09:37 AM
04/18/07 09:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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2 hours? George Bush waited 7 minutes to do something on 9/11!!!! This is clearly a vast, right-wing conspiracy to make South Korea look bad, fooling stupid Americans into thinking it was a North Korean who perpetrated this act, and then we can war with them with the neocons in control! Save our civil liberties! Impeach Bush!
[/retard] Do we really need this nonsense on a thread about a tragedy?
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Virginia Tech shooting
[Re: Yogi Barrabbas]
#386290
04/18/07 10:04 AM
04/18/07 10:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,900
Beth E
Crabby
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Crabby

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,900
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Did anyone see the video of his two roommates interview? There's a link on CNN's website. Click on video "killer's former roomates recall strange kid". http://www.cnn.com/
How about a little less questions and a lot more shut the hell up - Brian Griffin
When there's a will...put me in it.
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