Olivant, What is so ridiculous about gates? When I went to college (over 20 years ago), it was a suburban campus with a high number of commuter students. There were gates at each entrance with a security booth. Why is it so ridiculous to close the gates, not to prevent anyone from exiting, but to prevent more people from entering? And while I agreed that it would probably be close to impossible to lockdown a campus of that size, why was there no EFFORT made to do so? The students who lived in the dorm where the first shooting took place were not even informed that a crime had occurred. Why not?

As Goombah said, there is so much effort to minimize crime on campuses that many schools will do all they can to prevent the news from leaking out. God forbid they frighten off future and/or current students!

And if there is a rapist in a dorm, why not at least lock down that dorm? This was a fresh crime scene, and yet students were allowed to come and go. Why were they not even interviewed as potential witnesses? If they thought this was an isolated incident, they why was no effort made to search the dorm to see if the shooter was hiding in a closet?

I read the one act play that the shooter wrote. Even if we were to put aside the disturbing imagery, it is terrible writing, especially for a college English major. The character development was poor and there were lapses in logic in the plot.
(Dad died a month ago; McBeef tried to save him; Mom is married to McBeef a month later; bizarre sexual and violent ideations are thrown around like confetti).

It looks like a rejected script from a Howard Stern wannabe. I'd expect a much better effort from a freshman in high school.

Also, I get the impression that the assignment was to write a 10 page play because this thing ends abruptly on page 10.

GRRRR You people really tick me off. Bitching about what they should have done and what they didn't do right. The same thing after ever major event. Hindsight is always 20/20.

They had a murder in a dorm, the rest of the floors in that dorm were in a normal state, the killer wasn't running the campus shooting up the place, so they thought that it wasn't open season on students. My lord how could anyone know that two hours later across the campus that the same nut case would do what he did. In most murder case the killer bolts. That is what is so strange about this kid. He show no emotions and fit back in with the rest of the students. Waited, and then blasted others who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sure you can say that they should have told students just in case, but maybe just maybe they were busy with something that doesn't happen every day in college campuses. I am sure that they don't run practice drills on what to do if something like this would happen. Yes, let's cause mass hysteria and have the whole place get out of control. People wouldn't have understood the announcements and chaos would have only masked the ordeal that follow two hours later. You know how rumors and hear say causes mass panic. People would be all over the place. It would be like trying to control a herd of cattle after they were spooked.

There is only one person to put any blame on in this event. That is the young man who did the killings. It is that simple. He is to blame and him alone. I can't help to think that the next step will be for the college to be sued for not doing enough to protect the students. "For letting this happen." You know the drill it happens after the camera crews go home and the next major event takes this ones place. You know that is almost as dumb as that reported who asked. "How are you going to keep this from happening again," a few hours after this tragic event took place.

After all Sharpton and Jackson and their Imus stunt was pushed right off the spotlight just that quickly. Gee, the Imus thing doesn't seem to be as bad now that something like this comes at us. I guess hurt feeling doesn't compare with the lost of lives does it now?

Let us take care of our crushed families, let tem bury their loved ones before we try and place blame on who did right or wrong, or who dropped the ball.

I'm now thoroughly overwhelmed by the 24/7 coverage of this tragedy, yet I come here to see what y'all are saying and post my two cents. Guess it's like the old watching-a-trainwreck illustration. But the dark side of mankind never ceases to amaze me, and just when you think our species has sunk as low as it can go, some new horror arises, like this one. I've gone from shock, to sadness, to anger, all in a couple of days. I can't imagine what those directly affected must feel.

I guess what pisses me off the most is now this little prick will live on in infamy because of the pain he's inflicted. Yeah, I know it's inevitable, but it still pisses me off. I always admired the spunk of Jesse James' mother. After the outlaw was killed by catching a bullet to his head while straightening a picture, Jesse's mom had this inscribed on his tombstone: "In Loving Memory of my Beloved Son, Murdered by a Traitor and Coward Whose Name is not Worthy to Appear Here." Yeah, I know Jesse James was a ruthless outlaw who shouldn't have been glorified either, but I do admire the notion behind the words on the headstone.

This sick turd doesn't deserve any mention of his name either. Well, at least he's burning in Hell right now, and that brings me some satisfaction.

What gates are you talking about? What campuses? Was that college you went to surrounded by a fence or walls with a moat? What kind of college would that be? For how long do you close a campus. That's what noone has addressed. A week? A year? How about forever?

Fatherson has it right. Two hours? How do you know it was going to be two hours? How about 2 minutes? What about 2 days? Okay, no more shooting. Open up the campus. Oh my God, there was another shooting. I thought shootings only took place 2 hours apart.

That is true. They shoot it out and then take their own life's.
They go on a rampage and keep going.

So as you see this case was so different then what school shooting have been in the past. Two people shot then nothing.


There is no way you can protect people from this type of thing. Just like the nut cases that walk into a McDonalds and blast away. In a family place mind you. In an Amish school house too.

Do we have to be afraid to leave our homes?


Look at 9/11 First thought was that of an accident. People in the 2nd tower were told to relax. Bang plane two strikes. Who would have known? It had never happen like this before.

Bang they hit the Pentagon. and then a plane going down in PA. Do you remember the rumors of planes hitting Chicago and a dozen other places across the country before they were reported to be false.

That is why it is funny

What gates am I talking about? There were several driveway entrances to the school and each one had a gate and a security booth. Why is this so difficult to envision? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

And how long do you keep it closed? Well, considering that they never warned the other residents of the dorm or even searched it, I think that they jumped to a fairly quick assumption that the shooter had fled. Based on what information? How did they know that the shooter was no longer in the building, much less on campus? Did they interview the other residents to see if they had seen or heard anything? From published interviews with the dorm's residents, they certainly didn't. So, how did they come to the assumption that the shooter had fled the building???

Even if they shutdown all the driveway entrances, how would it have prevented the shooting?

It wouldn't have prevented the shootings, but it would have limited the number of people entering the campus. Personally, I don't know if anything would have prevented anything, but I think that there's a chance that the fewer people on campus, or if people had been forewarned, that might have lowered the number of casualties. That's all I'm saying. And of course hindsight is 20/20; however, I believe that we have seen enough of these spree shootings that they are no longer in the realm of the inconceivable.

You're absolutely right. The middle school that my sons attend have given instruction on how to respond in the event a gunman enters the school. These events are becoming too ingrained in the reality of our students.

This attack sadly is not the last school shooting.

We have been talking about this subject in the office here at the Funeral Home and God knows we see enough of these events where people are hurting so badly.
The point that we have come up with is that there is little that people can do when these things happen. They are done, they have played themselves out and we were not in control of any of it. All people can now do to let out their anger is to ask questions. I think most of the quarterbacking comes from frustration of what has happened and the truth is that it is out of our hands. A tuff thing to accept. Does it help to try and find fault somewhere or is it the talking about the subjects that helps us cope?

Sad to think that we must include this sort of instruction to our children. It was at one time a drill in case of an atomic attack which you knew in the back of your mind would never really happen. Now it is something that may happen at any time. Is this how our children are being taught to handle their problems? Are we show casing these events to much, sending the message that this is the way to get back at the world when you are hurting inside? Almost showing our younger children this option?

And if you are hearing these things more and more does it become acceptable as a part of our way of life? At one time they locked the door of schools in the bad parts of the inner city to keep out gangs and drug dealers. People moved to the safety of what they thought were nicer school systems. But these things are happening in the best of places.

You hit on a good point. It's natural for people to ask, What if..." in the face of tragedy.

For anyone who's had a loved one in a car accident, he or she asks:
-What if the weather had been better?
-What if he left 10 minutes earlier?
-What if he didn't have to mediate an apology for Imus?

However, because what's at stake here(the lives of our children) and the knowledge that there was a particularly cruel randomness to the killings and that it will likely recur, it is natural to try to think of anything that can prevent or mitigate the harm done.

While we can't predict every school rampage, we are obligated to learn everything we can to deal with these situations effectively. If one life is spared through vigilance, it's a good thing.

Just seen on CNN that they closed down the Uni. of Minnasota. Another bomb threat. A professor found a note. If this turns out to be a hoax, how can people be so cruel and sick?

This just keeps getting better, Mig...

****************************
Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks

Apr 18 03:22 PM US/Eastern



BOULDER, Colo. (AP) - A University of Colorado student was arrested after making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.
During a class discussion of Monday's massacre at Virginia Tech, the student "made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people," university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.

Several witnesses told investigators the student said he was "angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people," according to a police report. Witnesses "said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him," Wiesley said.

The student, identified by police as Max Karson of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on suspicion of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution. He had a court appearance set for Wednesday afternoon.

His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son's free speech rights had been violated.

"I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to," he said.

University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about the student.

At Oregon's Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was "a fashion accessory" made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.

Let the witch hunts begin!

For real. Sad it's come to this.

FS made a valid point that these things will play themselves out. I have to believe that none of us are equipped to deal with anything of this magnitude. While we may question in order to vent our frustration, I also think that the questioning is essential so that both people and institutions may be able to plan better for the next time. Unfortunately, there will be a next time. Just as I don't believe that after September 11th, any hijacker would be able to take a plane without a fight because the inconceivable has already occurred, perhaps the next school will react differently and lives might be spared.

There was a service for one of the professors that died today. I am ashamed to say that I don't know his name, but he was the Holocaust survivor who was in his 70's. The Orthodox community in Brooklyn had a memorial service for him, and one of the speakers said that to save even one life is to save a world, and that the professor, in sacrificing his life so that his students could escape by jumping out windows, saved many worlds. How true!

Here is the bio of the Professor who was killed. How totally sad this Holocaust survivor was killed on the day set aside to remember the Holocaust.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiatech.shootings/victims/profiles/liviu.librescu.html

The gunman contacted NBC news after the first shooting and before the massacre.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/from/ET/

We all know that it will or at least with high probability happen. Why are gun laws not being discussed in this thread. I raised the question before. In addition to all the precautions, it must be ensured that access to guns is very very difficult for ordinary citizens. Many countries have far stricter rules compared to United States. Whether equipping ordinary citizens with guns is reducing the crime rate in the country is very debatable. I was looking at THIS website yesterday. It is ridiculous to note that most states have no licenses/permits at all. There should be licenses and people should fill out an application stating their need to possess a weapon. Then somebody should do a background check and crime/medical history verification before they issue a gun.

Here are exerts of survivors from the upcoming People magazine story.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20035329_20035534,00.html

All true Klyd. All true. We can all be monday morning quarterbacks, that's very easy. Or we can be sunday morning quarterbacks and come up with a game plan of some kind that may at least try and prevent or minimize casualties in the event that God forbid this kind of thing happens again. That's the hard part. I realize that it is impossible to prevent these kinds of rampages from happening. There is no way for anyone to be able to predict or forsee something like this happening. But we do know, from past history, that this unfortunately will happen again sometime. It's been repeated too many times for it not to happen again. Surely some kind of measures can be taken or systems implemented that will at the very least help secure these camouses and schools when something of this magnitute happens. I am not trying to lay blame on anyone that was involved in all of this except the killer himslef. But at the very same time I cannot, for the life of me, understand why or what made authorities believe that he was gone from the campas after the first shootings. Everytime that question has been asked of the police or the school officials, they make the same reply that they cannot comment on that right now.

What made law enforcement believe that he had left the campus and was already headed out of state? Why won't they give an answer as to what or why made them think that?

The word "assume" has been used a littel too much for my taste by law enforcement almost everytime this question has been asked of them. "We assumed..." but without giving an explaination as to WHY they assumed.

Well, considering the nonsense I was making fun of did the exact same thing, I think its relevant.

Here is a picture that was in the package the killer sent to NBC.

What a real tough guy.


Beth, when did he send this to NBC? Or should I say, when did they receive it?

He mailed it via regular United Postal Service between the two murders. NBC just received it in the mail today.

Holy shit. What a sick bastard, huh?

A Virginia Tech Survivor: "I Thought, 'The Next Shot Is for Me'"

Clay Violand, a 20-year old junior from Potomac, Maryland, is an International Studies major with a music minor. He was in a French class on Monday morning in Norris Hall when all hell broke loose. He provided TIME with this account of Cho Seung-Hui's rampage.

About halfway through class we heard the noises. Someone said something like, "It's probably just construction." The noises didn't stop. The teacher stiffened up and said "That's not what I think it is, is it?" That's when I remember going into panic. I pointed at the teacher and said, "put that desk in front of the door, now." She did it, and then said "someone call 911." [A classmate] to my right stood up and called 911.

At that point, the door was nudged open aggressively, and I saw a gun emerge into view. It was surreal. Following the gun was a man. He was Asian and had a lot of ammunition and gun gear on — like a big utility belt or something for ammo. That was the only glimpse I got. I quickly dove under a desk — that was the desk I chose to die under. He then began methodically and calmly shooting people down. It sounded rhythmic — like he took his time in between each shot and kept up the pace, moving from person to person. After every shot I thought, "OK, the next one is me." Shot after shot went off and I never felt anything. I played dead and tried to look as lifeless as possible. Sometimes after a shot, I would hear a quick moan, or a slow one, or a grunt, or a quiet, reserved yell from one of the girls.

After some time (I couldn't tell you if it was 5 minutes or an hour), he left. The room was silent except for the haunting sound of moans, some quiet crying, and someone muttering "it's OK, it's going to be OK. They will be here soon." I [propped] my head up just enough to mutter in a harsh whisper, "play dead. If he thinks you're dead then he won't kill you."

Shortly after, the gunman returned. My head was down the whole time. I continued to play dead. He began unloading what it seemed like a second round into everyone again — it had to be the same people. There were way more gunshots than there were people in that room. I think I heard him reload maybe three times. I think it was the sound of reloading — they were long pauses. He continued to shoot everyone over and over. After every shot I braced myself for the next, thinking, "This one is for me." I remember having stray thoughts,like "I wonder what a gun wound feels like. I hope it doesn't hurt. I wonder if I'll die slow or fast." I had come to accept my death, but the fear was still there. I was terrified that my parents weren't going to be able to go on after I was gone. I kept thinking about my parents. There was a girl in front of me — I didn't know her well. I didn't know her name. We kept eye contact from time to time. She was brave. I don't think she cried. We just stared at each other under the desks.

When the gunman finally left, I heard the police barge in the hallway doors and yell "get down! Get down!" The cops pounded on the door and asked someone to open it. I think eventually they just came in and told us to walk out if we could. I got up and put my hands up. Just me and that one girl next to me got up. She had a gunshot wound — I hope she is OK. I think she is — she was walking. I am so proud of her for staying calm. She would have been the last person I had made eye contact with on this earth if I had died.


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Reading this sends chills up and down my spine.