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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: The Italian Stallionette]
#389467
04/30/07 12:39 AM
04/30/07 12:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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I'm getting the feeling that this last season is going to deal with personal issues. Think about it, Carm & Tony's visit to the lakehouse turned into a family brawl; Tony's uneasiness/mistrust of Paulie; Christopher seems to have his mind only on the movie business; Vito's son going a little off the deep end; And, tonight poor Tony couldn't win for losing.  resenting the 200 grand he owed. This "could" be an indication that it'll end with Tony losing everything. Personally, I don't mind these storylines, and enjoy disecting the plot, however, I will be kind of disappointed if there isn't at least one "OMG" moment this season. As for tonight's episode, my first impulse is to say not as good as the first three, but I need to think about it more and possibly see it again. And...did you catch when Tony and his bodguard were in the car, his bodyguard made a reference to the two Middle Eastern guys that were at the bing???? Don't know what to make of it.  TIS What happenend to the 20s something bodyguard? I don't mind the storylines either. They're all part of the whole. But some of them are hard to figure out - their relevance and all. For example, the money that Hesh loaned him. What was that all about? Do you think that the low-grade lumber Carmela used in her spec house will come "crashing down"? What about Tony getting aggressive with Carmela? That hasn't happened in a long time. And did Dr. Melfi look a little plumper to you? And no Janice this episode. Thank God. Oh, oh. What about Tony referring to his capos as murderers? And last, but not least: does the V on Tony's head stand for Vendetta?
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: Paul Pisano]
#389492
04/30/07 08:01 AM
04/30/07 08:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 554 Philadelphia
BDuff
Philadelphia's Consigliere
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Philadelphia's Consigliere
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 554
Philadelphia
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It was a solid episode, you can see the tension beginning to mount with New York and New Jersey. Phil had a couple of lines that made me laugh... "Well I guess the turd doesn't fall far from the fa***t's ass." "You look like a Puerto Rican whore!" It was good to see some of the other guys again like Carlo, Benny, and Patsy. Tony still has that inner douche in him. Like SC said, I actually felt bad for AJ who is slowly turning his life around and this might begin another downward spiral. Where's Meadow? Haven't seen her in awhile. How about Vito Jr. pooping in the :x...didn't need to see that! Look's like Paulie and Christopher are going at it again in the next episode..that's always good!
"When my time comes, tell me, will I stand up?" Paulie "Walnuts" Gaultiere - The Sopranos
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: SC]
#389497
04/30/07 08:29 AM
04/30/07 08:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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A fine character study episode. Ups and downs (especially with Tony).... he showed what a prick he could be, especially to Carm, with his money comments that developed into their fight and with him being pissy towards Hesh BUT he showed a decent side, too (his stepping up-to-the-plate with Marie Spatafore and finally giving Hesh all the money back after Hesh's wife died).
I liked the episode and consider it one of the (necessary) bridge episodes that appears every season.
It was the first time in a long time that I felt sorry for AJ.
Whats up with the Middle Eastern guys (at the mosque)? What a bastard. How he treated Carmella was disgusting. That was some scene between them. Such chemistry between Falco and Gandolfini.  Now with Vito's wife and kid, I got the opposite feeling. I thought again, that Tony was being a self centered selfish prick. Here he was going around all episode long telling his crew how Vito was his best earner, the money maker, etc. Then Vito's wife asks him for a measly $100,000 to change her life and help her kid, the kid of the guy who was Tony's best earner, and Tony squirmed, twisted, and took every avenue he could NOT to give her that money. So instead, he takes the cheap way out and for $18,000 has the kid taken out of his house like a dog, to one of these camps. SC, I saw how he handled the Spatafore situation much differently. He was a cheap and cold hearted prick for the way that he threw Marie and the kid to the dogs by taking the cheap way out. It was horrible how they came and dragged that kid out the way that they did. The Mosque scene may be a pre-lude to something to come with the 2 middle easterners that were hanging out at the Bing. Someone in the car makes reference to them during that scene. I too felt sorry for A.J. I think that the kid was sincere and felt that he finally had some direction in his life and she just crushed him. Anyone else get the feeling that Chase is paralleling John Gotti scenerios this season? The hit on Doc last week, the way that Johnny Sac dies, and how Tony has become this degenerate gambler and is getting very leary of those that he once trusted. Question: Does the Puerto Rican day parade take place during Football season? 
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: Sopranorleone]
#389501
04/30/07 08:58 AM
04/30/07 08:58 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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I too liked the scene with Tony & Carm. However, are we to assume that it was Carm's money Tony used to payback the debt?  I know that's what he was trying to do, but they never actually showed an agreement. Also, this debt to Hesh, that was never shown in previous seasons was it? As far as Vito's son, the shower seen was disturbing and I could have done without seeing it. I took Tony's help in that regard as kind of taking the cheap way out as well. As far as the lumber for the house Carm sold goes, yea, I wonder too if that'll come back to haunt her. With AJ, I was surprised that Bianca first accepted his proposal, because the last couple times we see them, she didn't seem particularly happy. I think it's because of AJ's "family". TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: The Italian Stallionette]
#389503
04/30/07 09:02 AM
04/30/07 09:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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With AJ, I was surprised that Bianca first accepted his proposal, because the last couple times we see them, she didn't seem particularly happy. I think it's because of AJ's "family".
TIS
TIS. If you re-watch some of the earlier episodes of this season, you can clearly see that Bianca is "disturbed" by Tony in several scenes. Just by the way that she looks at him. Then again, she could also have been giving him those looks and then thinking to herself that AJ is a loser and will never be the man that his father is. She may have thought that she hit paydirt when she fiorst met AJ and then saw that he was never going to be anything like his father. Could be interpreted either way.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: Don Cardi]
#389509
04/30/07 09:31 AM
04/30/07 09:31 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Now with Vito's wife and kid, I got the opposite feeling. I thought again, that Tony was being a self centered selfish prick. Here he was going around all episode long telling his crew how Vito was his best earner, the money maker, etc. Then Vito's wife asks him for a measly $100,000 to change her life and help her kid, the kid of the guy who was Tony's best earner, and Tony squirmed, twisted, and took every avenue he could NOT to give her that money. So instead, he takes the cheap way out and for $18,000 has the kid taken out of his house like a dog, to one of these camps. SC, I saw how he handled the Spatafore situation much differently. He was a cheap and cold hearted prick for the way that he threw Marie and the kid to the dogs by taking the cheap way out. It was horrible how they came and dragged that kid out the way that they did.
Its called "tough love". That kid NEEDED it!! Tony tried talking to the kid in a fatherly way. The little snot wanted none of it. You wanna jump on someone for NOT helping anymore than he did? Jump on Phil Leotardo. For two or three episodes he ranted and raved about how much Vito did his family a dishonor with his behavior and here was a chance to do something for his family and the Shah of Iran (  ) just turned his back on the kid. The money that Tony had lost, and its effect on Tony was shown by how much of a prick he became... he picked on Carmella, he "turned against" an old friend (Hesh), he lost sight of a responsibility (to Marie Spatafore). Once Tony "realized" this he corrected it... he apologized to Carmella (and I thought it was a heartfelt apology), he paid Hesh back in full, and he did what he thought was right with Vito's kid (by intervening on his behalf). For all that I applaud Tony.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: SC]
#389514
04/30/07 09:48 AM
04/30/07 09:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Yes, Phil was a hypocrite in all of this, no question. But I can't agree with you about Tony in regards to Marie Spat and the kid. He took the cheap way out. Tough love? Maybe. Was Tony being sincere talking with the kid? Ahh ahh. He was more concerned with finding an angle so that he wouldn't have to dish out that kind of money and save face at the same time. In his talking with that kid he was hoping that the kid would listen to him so that he could save the money. Once he saw that the kid didn't listen to him, he went to plan B. Almost as if he said to himself " f**k this kid now! He's going to cost me $100 grand, now screw him." So he saves his money and saves face with his crew at the same time. Chase showed us last nihgt what cold hearted, cheap son of a bitch Tony really is.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: Don Cardi]
#389516
04/30/07 09:50 AM
04/30/07 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Once he saw that the kid didn't listen to him, he went to plan B. Almost as if he said to himself " f**k this kid now! He's going to cost me $100 grand, now screw him." So he saves his money and saves face with his crew at the same time. Chase showed us last nihgt what cold hearted, cheap son of a bitch Tony really is. I don't see that at all.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: SC]
#389524
04/30/07 10:24 AM
04/30/07 10:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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If you have to question Chase's reasons for showing such scenes you're missing the point.
BUT, to use your "argument", do you really think that if the Spatafores simply moved to Maine their troubles (and Vito. Jr.'s) would simply disappear?
Little Turd Boy is over-reacting out of anger (about his father). Tony, in his home-spun philosophical way hit it on the head when he said that a geographical answer was not the solution to this issue. He (Vito, Jr.) HAD to be made to face what was REALLY bothering him. I agree that moving to Maine was not the answer. But I do believe that Tony succumbed to that theory more out of selfishness/cheapness than for the kid's sake. And it is my feeling that Chase wanted us to feel the horror of how the kid was taken away to show us that Tony took the cheap and heartless way out. The fact that each of us interprets these scenes differently is what makes this show so interesting.  Tony is a cheap, heartless f**k when it comes to money! 
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: SC]
#389529
04/30/07 10:39 AM
04/30/07 10:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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I, for one, will never again tell a moody teenager to go take a shit. I don't think AJ is going to handle this breakup very well. I mentioned last week that I thought that AJ could slip into depression under this scenario because he has suffered anxiety attacks in the past. There's alot of dark stuff going on this year and suicide has been prevalent in the past. I wouldn't be shocked to see the kid attempt to kill himself. Who knew that Heshy had a hot young black wife ? Wasn't it enough that he stole the royalties from the black singers in season one. Now their women, too ?  Seriously, I felt bad for Hesh. He has treated Tony better than most of his Italian associates. I know it's human nature to resent people who help you too much but Tony was sooooo wrong here. However, like SC, I do give him credit for doing the right thing in the end. I think I see some friction again developing between Chris and Paulie in the preview for next week. Paulie picking on Christopher's inability to handle a glass of wine is pretty petty. Obviously, Paulie doesn't come from the "12 step" generation.  With or without peer pressure, I can't see Christopher getting through the whole season without using. I think it might play a major part in the final episodes. Tony telling Carmela that her cheaply built spec house would fall on the mother of an unborn child was really a terrible thing to say. Certainly something that his own mother might have said. Ah the Sopranos, such nurturing parents. Again, I think this might foreshadow something happening to one of Tony's children. Did Vito Jr. really have to step in the shit ? Overkill.  Best line of the episode: Phil on Vito Jr. Phil: "The turd doesn't fall far from the fa***t's asshole." I watched the episode with my pop who is at least the same age as Phil. He laughed till the 10 o'clock news came on.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: olivant]
#389535
04/30/07 10:49 AM
04/30/07 10:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Yes, he seems to be having problems (the previews indicate so) with his crew. He did call them murderers.
I think Tony is growing increasingly paranoid as the season wears on. First Paulie, then Hesh - both long time associates, drawing his ire. Now the remark about them being murderers, which by the way was another Godfather nod (We're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker says.) I guess in that life it could be said that the paranoid survive but I think something else is going on here. I've never, in 8 years - even when his own mother wanted him dead, seen Tony so miserable.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: pizzaboy]
#389539
04/30/07 11:11 AM
04/30/07 11:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
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Adding my two cents. I don't think that Tony disturbed AJ's girlfriend as much as Carmella did. I think that her belated refusal of AJ's proposal was because she doesn't want to end up like Carm, especially after AJ tells her that she'll never have to work again, they'll have kids, and so on. I think that she looked at Carm, and saw her future as AJ had it planned.
As for Tony, he is a cheap, heartless bastard. And he always has been. His handling of his crew, the Spatafore problem, his wife, the spec house, all of it just showed that.
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: Just Lou]
#389552
04/30/07 12:17 PM
04/30/07 12:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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[quote=SC][quote=Don Cardi]
I agree mostly with DC. After he lost the last football bet, instead of coughing up the $100K, he goes to plan "B" and sends the kid out to Utah for a fraction of the cost. And had he won, he would have thought of another excuse to NOT give Marie the money anyway.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: pizzaboy]
#389567
04/30/07 01:08 PM
04/30/07 01:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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There's so much to comment on in the episode.
In the end, Tony is just a guy like many other guys. He's no more prepared to deal with situations than most others. Yes, he really doesn't want to spend all that money on a kid who, to be honest, is not someone who's on his radar screen until someone puts him on that screen. Both Phil and Tony handled him like alot of guys would and like guys tend to handle so many situations - being tough.
Remember, the series started with a guy that needed psychiatric help. Sooooo, he's got "issues" that he has not yet completely eliminated. Can he act nuts from time to time? Yes. Does he have the resolution to all problems? No.
Also, remember in the back yard when they were all eating and the camera lingered on Meadow's face and Carmela's face as Bianca looked at them? Did anyone else catch that? It seemed as if she was saying "white faces".
Last edited by olivant; 04/30/07 01:09 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: Sopranorleone]
#389637
04/30/07 06:42 PM
04/30/07 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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This has been applied to many characters, but the most applicable is Tony. Which is why, I think, this will be the most prevalent theme of this season. Maybe Tony looks back after he hits the gutter and thinks, "Hey I really didnt have it that bad and I took it for granted."
This week's episode was a good example. "Chasing It" is about throwing good money after bad... in reality its not about the money at all but rather a secret desire to lose. Tony seemed to right that (before the episode ended) and I'd be surprised if we saw more about his gambling this year.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: SC]
#389645
04/30/07 07:22 PM
04/30/07 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 401 Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Anthony Spilotro
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 401
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
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I personally enjoyed this ep. There was a lot of good character interaction and development and it really fit in well. A good show evolves as time goes on (ie Tony turning on Hesh, Tony's gambling problem, the Middle-Easterners filling the neighborhood, etc), as opposed to having the same basic thing happen in every episode. Nice seeing Tony and Carmella back to their old fighting ways. I think that no matter how much they go through together and how many times they reconcile, deep down inside it's just a marriage that cannot ever work. Looks like some (more) turmoil with Paulie and Chris next week, and it might even come to a head. Good times with the 'pranos.
"Mio padre se chiamo Antonio Andolini, e questo รจ per te." - Robert De Niro to Giuseppe Sillato in The Godfather Part II.
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Re: Season 6B, Episode 4 **SPOILERS POSSIBLE**
[Re: BDuff]
#389654
04/30/07 09:01 PM
04/30/07 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 89 birmingham, uk
GottiMafia
Button
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Button
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 89
birmingham, uk
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i agree with dc on chase using John gotti references the cancer the gambling and the boss hit. i personally did not like the episode that much but i can see good things happening in the remaining episodes
yes bduff i want war war war lol
5-10 years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
laugh now, cry later
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