Too pass the time at work...

Exactly what I said.

Or maybe his brains gone sour from all that salmonella in the Peter Pan peanut butter!

See SC I told ya.

Maybe it's time to put a poll up on here.

"Which Peanut Butter Is Best"

and then list Skippy, Peter Pan and Jif.

Why did you capitalise "appear"? It was important that you did.

I think it's convenient for us to point to Divine Intervention when what happens is an improbable (not impossible) explosion of Hazard. Remember that it's also as convenient for us to ignore Divine Intervention when miracles such as tsunamis happen. We don't point to God when we win the lottery; we might pray to Him before winning, but it's unlikely we'd admit to our selfishness when we thank Him for winning. We pray to God to let us win, but would then be hypocrites if we admitted, "But God created all men equal."

I also find it interesting that a lot of Christians are very, very quick to judge people. Call this terrorist or that terrorist scumbags; they do so in the name of God, instead of God, they take it upon themselves to pass judgment and condemn people to Hell, when God is or should be an all-loving, benign being, whose love far outweighs the evil of man.

SO what you said, what you really meant is that you disagree. That simple equation was as effective as saying, "I disagree."

Isn't that as logical as me posting a great means of losing weight, then you posting:

Fat people > Skinny people?

No offence with that example; it was the first that came to mind.

My main pet peeves: people who judge and people who generalize. Capo, "many" Christians??? Exactly how many?? I'm sure there are some, just as there are judgmental Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Muslims, etc. I think that you can't decide that.

Jesus' true message was that we are all God's children, and that He embraces us all. I choose not to believe in the fire and brimstone, unforgiving God that some do, but rather the God that Jesus talked about, the one that will forgive us our sins, because we are only human, and the God that embraces us with His love. That's what His son taught us.

Of course, as humans, we are often frail and give in to our baser side. But by being the very best people we can be, then we are serving both ourselves AND Him. Be it through academic achievement, being good spouses, being a good parent, performing random acts of kindness, that is what I mean. And it's a personal choice for each and every one of us.

To me, that is the true meaning of Christianity.

Many. Many who I've come across. I can only speak for people I meet.

The whole fact that the Bible is open to so many interpretations (contrary to how it was originally perceived, and intended) now shows, to me, that it can only be regarded beneficially, for evolutionary reasons, as allegorical.

The Bible's done far too much for us as humans for us to eradicate, but the time when it was the be all and end all of humanity's moral upkeep is long gone.

Oh, and were you generalising about your dislike of generalisations?

Apparently so.

And, btw, do you EVER sleep??

A little. Here and there, in fits and starts.

Improbable explosion of hazard? By this I assume that you/Fowles mean a coincidence?

Ok...so you think the fact that my friend and I were thinking about one another at the same time is a mere coincidence and nothing more...fair enough.

BTW-I think I should get myself a copy of Fowles' book. Not only do you quote it in your sig but have quoted it time and time again throughout this thread. For someone to put so much stock in one author's one book tells me that it must be pretty good. While I'm sure that The Aristos has some qualities that distinguish it from the THOUSANDS of other works that have similar philosophies; how can you expect Christians to not make CONSTANT reference to their one book(The Bible), when you make CONSTANT reference to your one book(The Aristos)?

Oh no.. only you, Ice baby.

Thanks, Bogey baby. And it's Ice-Ice baby, right?




His real name is Eddie.

He has a pony-tail and drives an El-Camino.

OK... one Pennsylvanian and one Ohioan agree. It must be the Amish influence. What next?? You guys gonna tell me that Peter Pan goes with scrapple??

Mmmmmmmmmm...scrapple.

OK, X, you get the award for most unexpected and out-of-context Top of Page Post!!

I eat nothing with the word scrap in it's name.

This from someone named after a crustacean?

I take it you don't eat crabs.

Ice:

Where do you draw the line between dismissing something as a coincidence and praising it as a miracle? If I am to thank our Creator for intervening in my life, what am I do for wars, starvation, human inequality? It's become a cliché to dismiss the existence of God on the notion of wars, but it is in part true. I cannot accept that, if someone did create me, they are autocratic enough to manipulate my entire life. In that sense, Divine Intervention is Devine Manipulation; it's not unlike some sort of dictatorship encouraging births in order to bring up the males to serve the purpose of the State, and to bring up females to produce more males. (But let's not get onto why the world's population is increasing.)

Fowles's novel is only good because I find it suitable to me. He's too self-conscious to say something as ridiculous as "My book > The Bible". He introduces his thoughts on Christianity, for instance, thus:And remember that all quotes from the Bible are selective, and only beneficial to the argument in which they are used; for many references in the Bible, there are references which oppose it, which contradict it, in other parts of the work. A recurring theme in my posts here seems to be contradiction, inconsistency, the convenience of choosing when and when not to believe, or what to believe. Theories, be they scientific or theological or artistic, are theories because they are intended to work in practice in every possible situation, to accomodate all routes of potentiality without exceptions - because exceptions disprove them.

Fowles's book might not be without contradictions, either, but he never announces himself as the prophet, and he never announces that it must be read in order to make humanity better. His primary concern is never to attack beliefs, but to reject certain beliefs in order to come to a conclusive contentment with his own; and by those means he comes to the conclusion that makes clear the sacrifices we must make in order to adapt to the new modern world we now find ourselves in (as a race, as a species).

I'm sure there are "THOUSANDS of other works" like The Aristos, but I only happened to read this one because I love Fowles's writing. I connect very deeply with the thematic preoccupations throughout his work, and I think he's a fantastic writer. Like I've already said, it's not necessarily a persuasive book, and it doesn't really want to be. It isn't persuasive because beliefs and faiths such as those found in religion are inherited through deep rooted education, family life and childhood environment; it's very difficult to turn to a religion once you're beyond adolescence, which is why born-again Christians fascinate me as much as they confuse me. That quote svsg wrote is excellent:



Put it this way: if all of today's generation eradicated religion in schools and family learning, what then would exist in God's "absence"? How would our creator reclaim His power among those who did not even know He existed?

Into you and your friend's coincidence went, I should imagine or suspect, millions of complex, interrelated scientific variables and factors, which made you think of one another on that day, at that time of the year; perhaps there was something buried deep within your memories, within your unconscious, that linked one another. It's no coincidence that me and some girl I've not spoken to in a while came back into contact last night; it's far too complex to say it was merely down to shared anticipation of spring, its coming, the sun and the memories we share with it.

A final quote, since I like them, from Ernst Mach:

I'll make an exception for you.

Hmmmm...and I thought shellfish was trayf.

It is. (I'm not kosher).

I feel it's only fair to scan in the relevant pages from the Fowles work, for the benefit of Ice, and perhaps his wallet; though I maintain that I already thought these things before reading the book.

Since this thread has gone SO off-topic, I may as well go further. When I was 16, I worked at a summer camp run by the local Jewish Community Center. I gave one of the kids in my group milk with his bologna sandwich, because that's what he asked for. I had no idea that his family was kosher, or even what the kosher laws WERE. I got in HUGE trouble.

For the rest of the summer, the other counselors taunted me with Billy Joel's "Only the Good Die Young".

Sorry dont know what Scrapple is. It could be hillbilly influence

[quote=MignonSorry dont know what Scrapple is. It could be hillbilly influence [/quote]

Scrapple is make up of all the ingredients not good enough to go into a hot dog.

After reading The Jungle for US History this year, my daughter has refused to eat hot dogs.

Scrapple is basically the parts of a pig you probably wouldn't ever dream of eating.

To quote a famous...um...quote...it contains "Everything but the squeal!"