Post deleted by I'M GERMAN-IRISH

You might well ask: Why weren't all the deleted scenes included in the theatrical releases, as they were in the chronological "Saga" versions shown on US cable TV periodically. The short answer is: the films ran long by theatrical release standards, and would have been even longer with those scenes included. But that's an explanation, not an excuse. I would have liked to have seen all of them in the films, not just in the "Saga" version or as an "extras" disc in the boxed DVD set.

I agree since Fabrizzio killed Michael's beloved Apollonia. FFC included the killing of Carlo, who played a hand in Sonny's death.

Like Turnbull said, it all came down to length of time. The released version was already 3 hours long, which is quite a bit of time even by today's standards.

The car explosion is a very short scene, so there may have been other reasons as to why its not included.

Im watching the Saga for that and many other scenes. A separate DVD for deleted scenes is not my cup of tea. The Saga is the closest you get to perfection in the GF world.

Just to add with what you said (and I agree with), Fame:
There was another, alternative version to Fabrizio's death that was actually filmed but never released in any version, theatrical or "Saga." Harlan Lebo, in the excellent, "The Godfather Legacy," reproduces a couple of stills in which Michael (dressed in patented gangster mufti--pearl gray fedora and black overcoat) personally kills Fabrizio in his pizza parlor. I'm guessing that this version was never used because it would have been totally illogical (to say nothing of risky) for Michael, already the Boss of Bosses, to personally commit a murder, even if it was to avenge his wife, when he had lots of qualified gunmen to do the job for him. But, what I would give to see that scene!

The Saga version is far and away the best version, for the reasons Fame said.

If I'm not mistaken, a photo of Michael from this scene was used for publicity and used in TV Guide to advertize the Saga, even though the scene was never shown. Maybe someone can confirm this or correct me.
Thanks.

I can't confirm that one. But, another example is that the cover art for the VHS box of GFII shows Michael in a black tuxedo. I don't believe he ever appeared in any of the films in a black tuxedo.

klydon1, the pic was used in a number of magazines, tho Im not sure about that TV guide.

These pictures were posted by JustMe some time ago:








A press photo from this site:




Now, about The SAGA- it has has 1 hour of deleted scenes, but one MISSING scene from GF2- :

A Church. ANTHONY is walking down the aisle during his first communion.

[Priest prays while giving out eucharist. Anthony is the third child. He turns toward the camera.]

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Other than that, the violence is toned down...

- Sonny says "stick in his hand" and not "dick in his hands"

- Young Vito doesnt shoot the extra bullet through Fanucci's mouth.

- Sonny doesnt get the close range final "treatment" from one of the hitmen...just the bullets to the car.

- No close-up when Young Vito "slices" Don Ciccio

And all the screen-texts are missing too...

well nothing is perfect, but the SAGA is still the most "complete" version of 1 and 2. There are some scenes in the SAGA that never made it to the DVD.

FFC also made some changes / corrections in the order of some scenes too (besides the regular chronological timeline)

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Now, about not including the lost scene where Michael kills Fabrizio : many believe the reason to be a very bad makeup work regarding Fabrizio's fake blood.
I highly doubt it to be the reason. If you ask me, the car explosion was simply put the best possible choice for revenge : killing Fabrizio in the same way he killed Apollonia.

Besides, the makeup artists did a fine job on Santino and the others...you can read these pages if u like...one is about the special effects in the movies and the 2nd link is a step-by-step explanation of Zasa's hit:

http://members.aol.com/morgands3/godfx/godfx.html

http://members.aol.com/morgands1/closeup/text/shooting.htm

OK One of the reasons I bought the DVD collection was for all the extra and deleted scenes. Up until I had purchased the DVD I had only seen the scene in the hospital where Vito and his sons visit Genco once on TV.

I was hoping and praying that they would have included the killing of Fabrizio in his pizza parlor by Michael. I have seen the still photos of this in Harlan Lebo's fine book, "The Godfather Legacy." Needless to say I was disappointed when I found out it wasn't included. I hope to God someday that Coppola gives this piece of film (some of which the pictures of Michael with the gun are posted above) to us in some form on DVD. It is one of the scenes that I would really like to see.

Welcome, Tommy! You and me both...
For that matter, can you imagine the treasure trove of other great scenes from the Trilogy that are stashed away in some studio vault--probably never to be seen by any of us?

klydon1 opines...

Quote

If I'm not mistaken, a photo of Michael from this scene was used for publicity and used in TV Guide to advertize the Saga, even though the scene was never shown. Maybe someone can confirm this or correct me.

Klydon, I don't know (and don't remember) how the TV shows were promoted inside TV Guide, but I can show you what the artwork looked like on the cover of TV Guide. The Godfather was featured on the cover of TV Guide three times (two exclusive, one shared), coincidentally always in November.

Here's the link for the TV Guide cover gallery: http://online.tvguide.com/games/covergallery/

The dates were:
November 16, 1974
November 12, 1977
November 30, 2002

The caricatures from 1972 are well done, and the artwork from 1977 is very good. JG should see about getting those on the web site.

tony b.

Thank you much, YoTonyB. The caricatures are outstanding indeed.

This is quite a site. I learned that Raymond Burr graced the cover of TV Guide on the week I was born. Another interestin diversion in my day.

Thanks again.

Raymond Burr!

There is a very funny, and TRUE, story regarding Raymond Burr and a former Chicago Bear football player which ultimately led to the now famous line...

"Is it wrong?"

Well...famous in Chicago, and possibly Grand Rapids.

tony b.

Can it be told on these boards?

Thread-hijack alert.

From the dahl.com website...

Quote

“Is it wrong?” was based on a true story Tom Thayer told on my show about Raymond Burr trying to pick him up in Los Angeles back in the mid 1980s. He was trying to pick Tom up to do “yard work.” I’m not sure that any of us ever uttered the phrase “Is it wrong?” but that was clearly the intent of the bit.

The complete story from Thayer says that Burr was in a limousine, had the driver pull-over and then rolled down the window and asked Thayer if he "would be interested in doing some yard work" in that classic Raymond Burr tone of voice. Which begs the question, "Is it wrong for one man to ask another man to do some yard work at his house?"

"Is it wrong?" said with a Raymond Burr/Perry Mason style voice has become something of a catch phrase to justify any type of questionable activity.

tony b.

Thread-hijack alert cancelled.
You may resume discussion of Hit on Fabrizio

idk.... it seems as if that would have been nice to have to show Michael's influence and his power

Thank you Turnbull. I think someone mentioned on another thread that FCC shot film of the two guys that Paulie Gatto used to beat up the punks that assaulted Bonasera's daughter. THAT would be another piece of film that would be cool to see. The description of it (the beatings) in the book is grotesque and brilliant.

I would have liked to see it the way it was in the book I've seen the car scene but I just thought it was too good for him to go out like that.

My greatest frustration-
"Epic" is still missing scenes.
"Saga" has the scenes missing from "Epic", but has been cleaned up for television.
Neither version is available on DVD.
And I could swear that someplace I've seen the scene with Michael and Solozzo in the restaurant with subtitles.

My dream-
To take a few weeks off, bust the copy protection on my "Trilogy" DVDs, rip them to my hard drive, and re-edit the whole thing into chronological order(minus the flashback at the end of GF2), all the deleted scenes I can get included, with all the edited for tv bits left back in, then re-burn the whole shebang onto DVD. Strictly for my own personal use, of course. (wouldn't want to break any laws, you understand).

Then, I spend a day watching the Ultimate Definitive Fanboy Edition while simmering a pot of marinara and a pot of puttanesca with a big braciole roll in each.

Sammy The Fish

Nice fantasy, Sammy--and one I share.
However, I'm aware of at least one snippet of film that's in the "Saga" version that didn't make it to the "extras" disc of the DVD set:
The scene with Michael meeting with Francesca and Gardiner Shaw (one of the best deleted scenes, IMO) ends, on the DVD "extras" disc, with Michael walking them out and saying, "Of course, you have my blessing." But in the Saga version, there's another four or five seconds after that in which Michael greets a hulking young man in a plaid sportscoat with, "How are you, Santino?" "Fine, Uncle Michael," he replies. Tiny as it is, the snippet is important because we now see Sonny's second(?) son as a grown-up. I bet there are other examples that people here know about.

Oh hell, you're right- I forgot about that one. I guess I'll have to burn clips from "Saga" to DVD as well.

This is going to end up having bits from more sources than when Kevin Brownlow re-constructed Abel Gance's "Napoleon"!

Sammy the Fish

I'll have to look for that on the Saga. Also after everyone leaves the room, doesn't Michael also turn to someone and say, "Make sure her Dowry is big, he comes from a family that thinks Italian wifes go barefoot and pregnant." ?

Actually, that's a matter of opinion. While it's always wonderful to see the 'deleted scenes' that have found a home in 'The Saga'...I've always felt that the modern-day Michael Corleone scenes from GFII lose a great deal of impact without the intermittent scenes of Vito's youth and rise to power.

So, while it's true the Saga is a great gift and a joy to watch...it is not necessarily the BEST version.

Apple

I agree that its a matter of opinion. I also think that people who grew up watching GF II as it is are more than likely to continue and love the way they used to watch it no matter what other versions come up. As for me, I actually started with the saga, and I watched it 20 times before I saw the original films, so its easier for me to prefer the saga. I first saw the saga not knowing that Im watching a rare version with lots of deleted scenes, so then when I saw the originals, I kinda felt like "where the hell is this and that great scene"... I gotta tell you, its not the chronological order which made me love it more- its the inclusion of all those scenes, it just feels wrong to see them seperated with that extra DVD.

But heres what I really like to talk about. Apple has raised a good question here. GF II without the Vito scenes, in my opinion, would not have gotten half the critical acclaim. I honestly dont think ppl would've called it a masterpiece without the Vito scenes. Surely, we GF nuts have grown to love and appreciate the modern day scenes, but from my own experience of showing the third part of the saga to other ppl (which is GF2 without the vito scenes) - ppl just dont like it as much as the other parts of the saga. What Im trying to say, is that if GFII was released without the Vito scenes , it would certainly be considered a good film, but one which appeals to smaller audience, unlike GF1.

FFC was brilliant.
Why?
Because the blending of scenes is a piece of work?
Or maybe the blending itself is not a piece of work, but the decision to do it?
Sure, we all like to see the scenes mixed up in GF2, its a joy. My question is, are there really any links between them or are they just scattered about? Ive been trying many times to fathom those links but each time I fail. I tend to believe that the real brilliance is not in the mixing itself but in FFC's mind. I think he knew those modern scenes are "weaker" (again not in quality--but in their appeal to the big audience)--and so, knowing the Vito scenes are the big hit, he didnt want the film to start off with a bang and then lose its momentum (or vice versa)
FFC's brilliant decision was to blend the Vito scenes in order to balance the film and keep it on a "high" level throughout its 3 hours.
Thats of course just my opinion, you can all feel free to disagree.
And just to make it clear - I do not prefer the Vito scenes over the modern day scenes. I love them equally. But I can definitely see them as the major "attraction" in GF2, hence FFC's brilliant decision.

I actually started a thread long time ago trying to decipher those links between the past and present scenes. I'll give you the link and I actually do hope that you'll prove me wrong by finding those links. the replies in the thread only mention the greatness of the mix, but they do not explain the actual links, if there are any. Dontom's reply was very interesting, but they are links between GF1 and GF2, nor are they direct--Im asking for links between GF2 Vito--to GF2 Michael--from one scene to the next/previous.
Heres the link:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005146#000000

We are watching the contrast between the father and the son. We witness Vito's humble beginnings and rise to power while maintaining the friendship and respect and in some cases, admiration of those around him...and at the same time the deterioration and utter alienation brought about under modern times and Michael's leadership...even though he manages to prosper financially.

The art of GFII is in no way whatsoever a 'scattering about' of the two time periods.

Apple

Yes, those are the general lines.
I wanted to be more specific, a link between one particular scene in the past to one particular sence in the present. Why exactly is this scene after that scene and before that scene.

Yes, Im being picky, but isnt that the point of this section? to beat those movies to death from every angle?

Oh, that's right. I forgot.

Apple

Thank you Turnbull!!!!

A while back I posted that I recalled a scene like this. I was told, at the time, that I must have been imagining this scene.


Don Cardi

LOL! Can I share you with fathersson? and Double-J?
Whaddya say Apple, can you handle 3 husbands?