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Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Turnbull] #436404
09/18/07 12:23 PM
09/18/07 12:23 PM
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Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Turnbull
 Originally Posted By: olivant
There are any number of conflicts within the criminal underworld. If they were all resolved by violence, there would not be any criminal underworld. Most are resolved through negotiation. Tom was made for negotiation. However, his murder credentials are quite in evidence. He was in on everything that Vito that resulted in harm to people and Vito harmed alot of people.

That's very true. And, much as we like to think of regular wars between families (as in Clemenza telling Michael, "Ah, dat's all right, dese t'ings hafta happen every ten years or so--lets out the bad blood"), families would much rather negotiate than fight. Wars are expensive, interfere with business, are dangerous, and enhance the omnipresent opportunities for treachery. Most of the wars we read about in real life are within families, over leadership and territories.


How true.

As Sollozzo so eloquently puts it, "I don't like violence, Tom. I'm a businessman. Blood is a big expense."

That said, a Don who would NEVER sanction violence would not be a very good Don. However, I'm not convinced that Tom would be unwilling to use violence if negotiations failed.


"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: The Last Woltz] #436406
09/18/07 12:28 PM
09/18/07 12:28 PM
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Tom was cool as a cucumber in that whorehouse. The dead whore didn't phase him. I don't think he'd have a problem with violence.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: pizzaboy] #436414
09/18/07 12:40 PM
09/18/07 12:40 PM
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dontomasso Offline
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Yep and he was pretty slick when he told Tessio he wasn't going to try to get him off the hook for old times sake.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: dontomasso] #436417
09/18/07 12:46 PM
09/18/07 12:46 PM
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 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Yep and he was pretty slick when he told Tessio he wasn't going to try to get him off the hook for old times sake.


That smile was as bone chilling as Young Vito's, "can't do it Sally."


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: pizzaboy] #436448
09/18/07 02:16 PM
09/18/07 02:16 PM
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New York
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Don't remember who it was, but I saw a comedian (maybe it was Leno? or Dennis Miller?) who said that Hagen's no to Tessio was the coldest "no" in history.


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Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Sicilian Babe] #436458
09/18/07 02:40 PM
09/18/07 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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See, and I always took it as though a part of Tom felt bad that Tessio had to go.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Don Cardi] #436463
09/18/07 02:54 PM
09/18/07 02:54 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
See, and I always took it as though a part of Tom felt bad that Tessio had to go.


Maybe he felt badly, but he was pretty direct when Tessio first says tell Mike I always liked him and it was just business. Tom
quickly says "He understands that." Then Tessio asks the famour get me off the hook question and Tom says "No chance Sally" then he makes a gesture with his eyes indicating to the buttonmen to put him in the car.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Sicilian Babe] #436479
09/18/07 04:26 PM
09/18/07 04:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 513
UK, Little old Rotherham near ...
Zaf-the-don Offline
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But you have to look at what Tom says when Mike talks about wipng out Roth and when sonny wants to kill sollozo - Tom is way to cautious - If he did that type of talk when someone was trying to kill him he wouldnt be a good don. Even Vito knew when to attack and when not to, same with Mike. Tom in my opnion didnt have a clue when to attcak and when not.

Tom was just a business man with little bottle.

Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Zaf-the-don] #458000
12/16/07 12:29 PM
12/16/07 12:29 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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Last night I was watching GFII and I realized that there is another scene that Duvall just shines in.


In the scene, right after the attempt is made on Michael. He's conversing with Tom about his always trusting him, how he's going to be the Don, etc. etc.

It's when Michael tells him that he's always thought of him as a brother, that once again, Duvall shows what a fantastic actor he really is.

The way that he makes himself well up and become partially emotional is so convincing. It's probably one of the most underated scenes in the movie. Duvall just makes that scene so convincing, like he does several others, with his brilliant acting.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Don Cardi] #458011
12/16/07 01:23 PM
12/16/07 01:23 PM
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"I always wanted to be thought of as a brother by you, DC, a real brother."


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: pizzaboy] #458017
12/16/07 01:42 PM
12/16/07 01:42 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
"I always wanted to be thought of as a brother by you, DC, a real brother."


Watch that scene very closely next time PB.

A brilliant piece of acting.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Don Cardi] #458022
12/16/07 01:47 PM
12/16/07 01:47 PM
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I just watched it and I concur!


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: pizzaboy] #458060
12/16/07 02:57 PM
12/16/07 02:57 PM
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So, True. And if you match that scene up with the one where he tells Frankie that the Corleone family used to be like the Roman Empire, you can see the emotional parallels that Duvall portrays.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: olivant] #458063
12/16/07 03:05 PM
12/16/07 03:05 PM
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 Originally Posted By: olivant
So, True. And if you match that scene up with the one where he tells Frankie that the Corleone family used to be like the Roman Empire, you can see the emotional parallels that Duvall portrays.


Absolutely! Those scens go right up there with the "they shot Sonny on the causeway, he's dead" scene from GFI.

Brando, Pacino and Gazzo themselves are magnificent in those scenes. And of course Brando and Duvall, Gazzo and Duvall, and Pacino and Duvall feed off of each other in those scenes. But Duvall is just superb in everyone of them.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Don Cardi] #458200
12/17/07 10:12 AM
12/17/07 10:12 AM
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These posts are making me thing they should have given Duvall the money he wanted for GFIII. It would have been a much better movie.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: dontomasso] #458201
12/17/07 10:14 AM
12/17/07 10:14 AM
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Unh, ya' think, counselor?


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: pizzaboy] #458203
12/17/07 10:17 AM
12/17/07 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
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 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Unh, ya' think, counselor?


Yea, I think Duvall i a level or six higher than George Hamilton.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: dontomasso] #458335
12/17/07 08:50 PM
12/17/07 08:50 PM
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Don Cardi Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: dontomasso
These posts are making me thing they should have given Duvall the money he wanted for GFIII. It would have been a much better movie.


Here, compare :

Duvall : "SENATOR! SENATOR! This committee owes an apology, this committee owes an apology -- an apology SENATOR"

Great acting by Duvall once again.


Hamilton : "Now we had an agreement! And this meeting was to be merely, a formality, that's all it was."

I want to smash my f**k*ng TV when I watch Hamilton in that scene. Trying so hard to be Duvall/Hagenesque in his delivery of that line. He fails sooo miserably. Vincent should have shot him instead of Joe Zsa Zsa! Although I like GFIII overall, FFC really took the cheap way out!




Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Tom Hagen As The Don [Re: Don Cardi] #458370
12/18/07 12:19 AM
12/18/07 12:19 AM
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Freakin CHEAPSKATE!!!!!


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12


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