Cruise's performance in Eyes Wide Shut is absolutely incredible.

And his performance in Magnolia is one of the best performances I've ever seen.

Personal tastes regarding the film itself aside, do you doubt that Cruise didn't care for his role in Eyes Wide Shut? Or were you saying that was an example of him being a mere "movie star"?

I don't really know what's meant by that term, that's why I insist on the quotation marks.

(What, for instance, is Bogart in his films if not a "movie star"? Errol Flynn? Eddie Murphy?)

I don't know how many times, nor in how many movies, I've seen that annoying Tom Cruise Smirk that's totally out of character to what he's playing -- there were many -- so in that sense, he's playing himself. He's watchable (not horrible) most of the time, but I do not believe he's that great of an actor in the films I've seen so far.

While watching his movies, I'm always aware of the fact that I'm watching Tom Cruise "acting" - as opposed to someone far superior like Pacino, who almost always actually embodies the character and is believable in his role.

Good point about TomCruise, that smirk etc. But you could say that about Pacino too. Devil's advocate and Recruit come to mind. Few actors actually convince you of the reality of the characters they are playing. Maybe DeNiro in Raging Bull. I like Tom Cruise's performance in Magnolia. And Capo, MI-3??? I don't even remember one impacting scene from that movie, let alone calling Tom Cruise's acting great. To some extent I liked his acting in 'A few good men' too. But Jack Nicholson overshadows him by a far far superior performance. Yes, superior is the right word. Tom Cruise is heavily overrated.

I love Pacino in Devils Advocate.I i thought he played John Milton(Satan)extremely well.

Mate, you can tell when an actor gives a fart, and when they're just coasting.

Take Brad Pitt. He acts his buns off for SE7EN, but SPY GAME? Nope.

Take Tom Cruise. He acts his ass off for BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY, COLLATERAL, MAGNOLIA, you name it. MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE II? I think not.

Of course there are actors who can take any part and be awesome, no matter how bad the dialogue.

Well, look at M:I 3.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman so fucking acts around Cruise in that movie SO MUCH, Hoffman could split in double and that clone still outacts the scientologist.

Then again, lets use the Matt Damon/Ben Affleck situation.

Ben Affleck wanted to be a movie star, and took so many commercial projects from rom coms to comedies to action to fun fluff, you name it. Several bombs later, and after the J-Lo disaster, nobody in Hollywood wanted him. Everyone was sick of him.

Matt Damon carefully took his time in picking his projects. Like Edward Norton, both men follow Dustin Hoffman's script-choosing approach in the 1970s.

Look at the movies Affleck made: BOUNCE, GIGLI, ARMAGGEDON, PHANTOMS, REINDEER GAMES, PEARL HARBOR, DAREDEVIL, CHANGING LANES, THE SUM OF ALL FEARS, PAYCHECK, SURVIVING CHRISTMAS.

Look at the movies Damon made: THE TALENTED MR. RIPLEY, THE BOURNE IDENTITY (and its two sequels), THE GOOD SHEPHERD, ROUNDERS, OCEAN'S 11 (and its good sequel. Fuck O12), SYRIANA, GERRY (which he co-wrote), THE DEPARTED.

Guess which one is having a hot Hollywood career right now...and which one bottomed out?

That said, Ben Affleck apparently has followed the career path that his buddy Damon does, with HOLLYWOODLAND almost scoring the man an Oscar nod.

Does embodying a character mean you forget who's playing that character? If you think that's the case, then respectfully, I disagree. When I watch Pacino's best performances, in The Godfather, Heat and Serpico, I am always aware I am watching Pacino. It's the same with Gene Hackman; I don't count his performances in The French Connection and The Conversation excellent because I forget it's Hackman playing them, I count them excellent because they make me believe in the onscreen character. That's the definition of a good actor, in my opinion. I don't think I've ever watched a film without thinking, "I am watching this actor", though.

It's the same with directors, really. When I'm watching a Hitchcock or Godard film, I'm always aware of the fact I'm watching a Hitchcock or Godard film.

When I watch Raging Bull, every scene I'm thinking, "Fuck me, De Niro is excellent in this scene." In my opinion, a good actor will make you simultaneously realise you're watching them, and believe in the character they're playing.

Surely, we take pleasure in watching Pacino chewing gum and shouting a lot in short little bursts of anger, in (let's be honest) the majority of films he performs in. Surely, we take pleasure in the way De Niro raises his eyebrows and turns in an instant from comical laughter to seriousness. It's how they take their natural persona to the role they're playing and tune it into that character...

And I think Cruise does that very, very well.

For the record, by the way, whenever I think of the term "great actor" recently, the first name that comes to mind is Charles Laughton.

Pacino chewing gum in most of his roles?I only remember him doing that in Heat.As for his shouts and out bursts,thats what everyone says when they take shots at him.I'm not saying you are Capo but in all honesty, i think you should check out his work in Dog Day Afternoon,Panic in Needle Park and Scarecrow(with Gene Hackman) if you haven't already seen them.

But like i said earlier, i'm not a Tom hater. I do enjoy him in some roles.

Perhaps not, to be fair, but I always remember him chewing gum and shouting a lot. I need to see those three films, too (thanks for the recommendation). And, as it happens, I agree that people tend to pick up on his shouting and outbursts as criticisms, but I'm not here, I was picking up on it to say that it's natural for him to take from role to role. Typecasting? Perhaps, but he's still good at it.

But, my point was saying those things in order to say that whenever I watch Pacino, I am always aware that I am watching him. Which, I think (and this makes sense), is natural, considering I probably only watched a lot of films because he was in it.

i'm actually really surprised you haven't seen Dog Day Afternoon.IMO i reckon thats where he has given his greatest performance, as i i actually FORGOT i was watching Pacino.Seriously rent that out Capo and if you like Gene Hackman, get Scarecrow. A t underground classic.

Yeah, I've been wanting to see Scarecrow in a while, but it's not available on r2 DVD. I could import it, but I vowed a few months ago not to buy any more DVDs until I watched the 200+ I have already unwatched.

And... I think we're getting away from the points I was making.

I was going to add this at the time, but for some reason, didn't:

For what it's worth, what I said above about Cruise is at the least more than I can say for De Niro.