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Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: SC] #442091
10/09/07 09:23 AM
10/09/07 09:23 AM
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The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SC
Its funny you posted a picture of that card. A good friend of mine bought that card and gave it to me as a gift.

Small world, huh?


Yes, it really is.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Don Cardi] #442774
10/11/07 11:50 AM
10/11/07 11:50 AM
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Today is the one year anniversary of the death of Cory Lidle. Yesterday marked the third anniversary of Ken Caminiti's passing. Gone too soon.

Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: klydon1] #442777
10/11/07 11:57 AM
10/11/07 11:57 AM
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I remember hearing the story about that crash, and thinking that terrorists had struck NYC again. Although relieved to hear that wasn't the case, I was saddened to hear about Lidle's death.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #442782
10/11/07 12:16 PM
10/11/07 12:16 PM
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So will it be Joe next year or LaRusso, Mattingly or Girardi?

Is Stump Merrill still alive? What about Bucky Dent, you never here his name anymore.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #442791
10/11/07 12:49 PM
10/11/07 12:49 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I remember hearing the story about that crash, and thinking that terrorists had struck NYC again.


Me too, that was my first thought

Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Irishman12] #443145
10/12/07 02:06 PM
10/12/07 02:06 PM
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Looking ahead to 2008, what do you guys think the Yankees look like? I don't know who the big free agents are going to be yet other than Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones. I think this is how they'll look:

C - Posada
1B - Giambi/Phillips (I think Mientkiewicz only signed a one-year contract, didn't he?)
2B - Cano
SS - Jeter
3B - A-Rod (Even if he opts out I think he stays)
LF - Matsui
CF - Cabrera
RF - Abreu (I think they'll pick up his option for another year)
Bench: Giambi/Damon/Duncan

Starting Pitchers - Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain and hopefully Pettitte. Do they keep Kennedy or send him back to Triple-A and sign someone else?
Set up man - Is Farnsworth's contract up yet?
Closer - Riveria
Manager - ?

Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Irishman12] #443155
10/12/07 02:41 PM
10/12/07 02:41 PM
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I'm not quite ready for my typical State of the Yankees style post with player grades and prospects, but I'll reply to yours with some of my hopes for the upcoming season...

C - Posada
1B - Mientkeiwicz OR Phillips
2B - Cano
SS - Jeter
3B - Betemit (I really don't think A-Rod returns)
LF - Melky Cabrera
CF - Torii Hunter/ Aaron Rowand
RF - Abreu
DH - Duncan, Matsui
Bench: Molina

Rotation:
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Chamberlain
Mussina/Kennedy

Bullpen:
Mussina/Kennedy
Vizcaino
Ramirez
Britton
Horne
Farnsworth
Rivera

There is too much age on this team. I would begin cutting ties with several players, including Damon and Giambi (especially those two), in favor of younger talent. I would certainly eat salary to move either one. Damon's durability and his bat is still enough to turn him to a team that needs leadoff talent. Aaron Rowand will likely be available, and would replace Damon's clubhouse spirit.

Giambi is an albatross with a Tampa-era contract. I'd give him away for just about anything. Preferably bullpen help.

Matsui has a full no-trade clause, and the revenue from Japan is too great for the Yankees to dump him. The problem is that he is either a.) still hurt or b.) aging incredibly fast, which is not a good sign for a team that already has too many DH's.

It is quite hard, because there are still no solid options to replace our aging players. Kudos to the Tampa group (hence why I would NOT get rid of Cashman). Torii Hunter, despite his injury history, is the best center fielder available. The question is whether you want Rowand or not for his intangibles. I don't know. I'd probably go with Hunter, but if we're trying to build a '96 team, I'd go with Rowand. Either way, Shelley Duncan can play a serviceable left field (no worse than Matsui...).

I'd pick up Abreu's option in a heartbeat, simply because of his turnaround, as well as his great performance in the playoffs (one of few Yankees).

Melky stays, and is an untouchable. He is the next Bernie Williams (better, I'd say, fielding, probably slightly less at the plate, though he does have potential, and showed poise at the playoffs).

As far as the infield, A-Rod is gone. Pure and simple. He wants the money, and while I would love to have him back (he didn't have a horrible postseason, and did better than other Yankees), paying him in the neighborhood of $40 million per year is just ridiculous. That being said, he does have incentive to accept the Yankees offer, since it comes with the Texas money. However, I doubt he'll be back, and I'd expect him in Chicago next year, with San Francisco being the dark horse.

That brings us to Wilson Betemit, who is still young enough to be thrown in with the prospects, surprisingly enough. He can hit for power, and has soft hands on defense. He could grow into an everyday player for this team, if needed. Betemit had been on the Yankee radar for ages, so they are high on him. Go forth and prosper, Wilson.

Jeter stays. But his clutch is missing. Someone should call the FBI, it's missing.

Cano is a phenom, and they need to get him locked up as soon as possible. He could legitimately win the batting title next year in the AL, as he continues to show his plate discipline, hit for more power, and improve his OBP. His defense is great.

Mientkeiwicz and Phillips both play a great first base, though Phillips had a much better bat this year before he got hurt. I give Mientkeiwicz the edge in defense, however. While their bats leave a bunch to be desired, neither was horrid at the #9 spot.

Posada is an enigma. His defense has arguably lost a step (should have stopped one of those Joba pitches in the Bug Game), though he still has a decent arm. His batting didn't come into question until the playoffs, when he resembled A-Rod at the plate, and looked totally lost. Let's pray Jesus Montero is developing quickly. Maybe we can falsify his birth certificate and say he's 18 or 19 (I believe he's 17 right now). Now you know why I pushed for us to acquire Jarrod Saltalamacchia earlier this year, even though it would have probably cost us Kennedy or Melky. Molina is serviceable, and probably could start for some teams in baseball, but will be a decent backup. There are virtually no free agent options out there at catcher.

For the rotation, Pettitte will probably come back. If not, it's a shame, but it will only further the youth movement (read: rebuilding, which I am in favor of). Hughes should be back to Toronto-game form, and develop into the ace of the rotation. Wang showed in the playoffs why he is probably suited to be the #2 pitcher. Joba will move to the rotation (unless Rivera doesn't resign, which I doubt), he is considerably more valuable there. Kennedy will join the rotation as well. Rounding it out will be Mussina, who really does not belong on this team. You have to wonder if they couldn't circumvent his 10+5 NTC and send him on his merry way, along with Kei Igawa, to the National League for some talent.

The bullpen needs Vizcaino to resign, and needs Ramirez and Britton to take (be given?) more prominent roles. Farnsworth has to get some even dorkier glasses, and pitching lessons from Charlie Sheen. Rivera needs to last another year. I wonder if they won't promote some more minor leaguers (Alan Horne?), and possibly develop Ohlendorf. He was supposed to start anyways, and was HORRIBLY misused by Torre against Cleveland in the playoffs. It could have ruined him for life.

The plus side is that we have some very nice position prospects coming down the line that I'll discuss in my long post sometime in the next week or so. I realize the cliche is that the Yankees don't rebuild, they reload, but I think that if we could nix Torre, get Girardi in here, with a small core of veterans mixed with the youth movement, we could have the makings of another '96 at the very least, certainly the basis for a dynasty.



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443182
10/12/07 03:39 PM
10/12/07 03:39 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Double-J
Giambi is an albatross with a Tampa-era contract. I'd give him away for just about anything. Preferably bullpen help.


I won't argue with that but oddly enough, Giambi was the one guy (in the lineup other than Jeter) that I hated to see come up against Boston.

The Yanks definitely need to invest in some young players now.


.
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: SC] #443183
10/12/07 03:50 PM
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When healthy, Giambi is a valuable power-hitter who can help take the pressure off of other hitters in the lineup, as well as cushion the middle of the lineup (walking A-Rod to get to Giambi, for example).

The problem is that he is a DH, a lefty DH no less, in a lineup that is obscenely lefty-heavy. If he could play even relatively competent defense, I'd consider him at first base, but he can barely run when he's healthy.

The Angels were, and likely should still be (if they don't acquire Bonds or A-Rod) interested in Giambi, and I suspect the Yankees could try and make a nice deal if they ate salary. I would, for instance, have a man crush on Brian Cashman if Chone Figgins came to New York. An instant utility player, lead-off man who would be a baserunning threat, something basically unheard of in New York.


Incidentally, I forgot that Bartolo Colon is going to be a free agent. Wonder if the Yankees would be interested...he's only three years removed from his Cy Young, and could be a nice bridge until the rest of the Yankees young pitchers move up?



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443185
10/12/07 04:17 PM
10/12/07 04:17 PM
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SC Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Double-J
I would, for instance, have a man crush on Brian Cashman if Chone Figgins came to New York. An instant utility player, lead-off man who would be a baserunning threat, something basically unheard of in New York.


Figgins would be a big plus to ANY team but he must be 30 now. If the Yanks are gonna rebuild, they should start with some younger players.


.
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: SC] #443186
10/12/07 04:29 PM
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I totally agree, but he would undeniably be the kind of utility/bench player the Yankees could use (rather than another power-hitting DH).

The good think is that the Yankees do have some very good prospects for position players, the problem is that they are too young to be promoted to the MLB level. Jose Tabata (outfield) is still probably another year away from full-time duty; projections give him Manny Ramirez power and great-but-not-elite defense. This will work well with Abreu's contract, because it will expire after 2008, allowing Tabata to slide into right field.

Similarly, there are a couple of other big names coming out of Trenton and Scranton-Wilkes Barre. Austin Jackson (SS) will probably eventually replace Jeter, Jesus Montero will replace Posada. But again, it takes time, and they guys are young (like I said, Montero is barely 18).

Besides, I highly doubt that the Angels would give up any decent prospects for Giambi. Figgins is expendable because he is a utility player without a position, and the Angels need power hitting. But again, this is all speculation. I'm sure the Angels will go after A-Rod hard, and Bonds even harder.

Still, I would love to send Giambi off to the West Coast.



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443187
10/12/07 04:39 PM
10/12/07 04:39 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Double-J
The good think is that the Yankees do have some very good prospects for position players, the problem is that they are too young to be promoted to the MLB level.


So you wait a year or two and rebuild from within. Thats how to build up the next dynasty. (I know, I know... its easy to say that and I honestly wouldn't want to see the Sox "waste" a year or two, but rebuilding takes some time).

BTW - You mentioned earlier about a leadoff base running threat being unheard of for the Yankees. Remember Rickey Henderson?


.
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: SC] #443188
10/12/07 04:50 PM
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 Originally Posted By: SC
 Originally Posted By: Double-J
The good think is that the Yankees do have some very good prospects for position players, the problem is that they are too young to be promoted to the MLB level.


So you wait a year or two and rebuild from within. Thats how to build up the next dynasty.


Isn't that what I've said? ;\)

 Originally Posted By: Double-J
I realize the cliche is that the Yankees don't rebuild, they reload, but I think that if we could nix Torre, get Girardi in here, with a small core of veterans mixed with the youth movement, we could have the makings of another '96 at the very least, certainly the basis for a dynasty.



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443189
10/12/07 04:51 PM
10/12/07 04:51 PM
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Oh, and besides, I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. I know about rebuilding. We've been doing it since 1996. \:p



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443191
10/12/07 05:04 PM
10/12/07 05:04 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Double-
Isn't that what I've said?


Oh, errrr, yeah.

Eyewitness News just reported that Torre will likely be asked back next year.


.
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: SC] #443194
10/12/07 05:17 PM
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Good for Joe. But I don't see this team improving much over next year if they continue to do the same things they did this year - never playing smallball, never adjusting the lineup, mismanaging the bullpen, playing favorites with the bullpen, and having a team that played like the took quaaludes before the game.

All of which I do find Torre guilty of over the past 3 years...regardless of how I feel about him as a person, or of his previous track record, or his place in Yankee lore, etc. etc. etc.



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443230
10/12/07 09:28 PM
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Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443258
10/12/07 11:30 PM
10/12/07 11:30 PM
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I would think he'd stay. The Yankees can't afford to lose him or the money from Texas. Also, I don't think Betemit is anything more than a utility guy.

But maybe he wants to play for the Mets. That was his childhood favorite team, and reportedly that's where he wanted to play before Boras led him to Texas.

Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: klydon1] #443267
10/12/07 11:53 PM
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 Originally Posted By: klydon1
I would think he'd stay. The Yankees can't afford to lose him or the money from Texas. Also, I don't think Betemit is anything more than a utility guy.


Betemit could probably play as an everyday player, but obviously there would be plenty of other people that would be available.

FTW, I have heard that the Orioles would like to keep Tejada, but have him move to third base. Does that make Melvin Mora available?



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443386
10/13/07 10:38 PM
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Holy Piss!!!

Big rumor out of New York...the Yankees are in talks with the Twins to make a deal that would send a package of players, headlined by Chien-Ming Wang, to Minnesota, in exchange for Johan Santana.

\:o



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443395
10/14/07 12:49 AM
10/14/07 12:49 AM
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Irishman12 Offline OP
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Where did you hear that DJ? Do you have a link?

Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Irishman12] #443406
10/14/07 02:16 AM
10/14/07 02:16 AM
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Are trade talks allowed before the end of the World Series?


"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443548
10/14/07 09:31 PM
10/14/07 09:31 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Double-J
Holy Piss!!!

Big rumor out of New York...the Yankees are in talks with the Twins to make a deal that would send a package of players, headlined by Chien-Ming Wang, to Minnesota, in exchange for Johan Santana.

\:o


Holy Piss? Hmm? Is that a Buffalo expression?

One pitcher for another? Why, because CMW screwed up in the playoffs? There's got to more in that deal....like the other players. Who's on the Twins that the Yankees could benefit by? The catcher or the first baseman? or both?


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: MaryCas] #443552
10/14/07 09:45 PM
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It would be foolish. If they were trading star players based on their latest postseason performance, they'd be looking for a new shortstop. Actually, with the exception of the outfield, they'd be looking to trade the whole damn team.


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Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #443571
10/14/07 11:51 PM
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I think it's a smart trade. Santana is a 2-time Cy Young winner with dominante stuff (plus he's a lefty can't hurt, can it?). Sure Wang is younger but only by 1 year. If we have the chance to get Johan, I say get him!

Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: MaryCas] #443625
10/15/07 08:03 AM
10/15/07 08:03 AM
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 Originally Posted By: MaryCas


Holy Piss? Hmm? Is that a Buffalo expression?


Last time I checked, we humans piss out of a hole, right? \:p



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #443628
10/15/07 08:14 AM
10/15/07 08:14 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
It would be foolish. If they were trading star players based on their latest postseason performance, they'd be looking for a new shortstop. Actually, with the exception of the outfield, they'd be looking to trade the whole damn team.


There are two sides to this trade, should it go down.

On the plus side, you are getting the most dominant strikeout pitcher in the American League over the past few years, and a lefty at that, something we haven't seen in New York in...what, forever? \:p

Santana would certainly be the ace of the rotation, and any trade would come with a contract extension, likely making him a Yankee for a considerably long tenure.

On the down side, there is nothing inherently wrong with Wang, other than the fact that he had control issues in the first game, and then pitched on short rest in the second game, against a potent Cleveland offense. He is a great pitcher, but his game relies on a solid defense behind him.

Also, any deal would mean the Yankees would certainly send prospects, and I would suspect that it would most likely include Melky Cabrera and one of our higher-tier pitching prospects (Ian Kennedy?).

Is the trade worth it? If Cashman could get them to lay off of Melky, and still get it done, I would do it. Santana is young enough so that he'll remain a dominant AL pitcher for a considerably long time. We have a glut of prospects for this very reason. I like Ian Kennedy, but I'd rather have Johan Santana, simply because of the fact that one is a proven Major League pitcher while the other is not.

If Melky enters into the equation, it gets harder. Sure, you could trade Melky away, but he has the potential (in my opinion at least) to be the next Bernie Williams. If the Yankees wanted to do the Twins bad, they could simply go and sign Torii Hunter (who left, creating the void that Melky would fill in Minnesota). But this could really hinder the Yankee youth movement, as Hunter is a 30+ year old center fielder with an injury history, although he plays amazing defense and has a bat that Melky simply cannot compete with (yet).

The problem with this trade is that it doesn't see the Yankees getting younger, which I think is vital. If I were Cashman, I would try to get this done without Melky being involved, but with Torii Hunter on the horizon, and Jose Tabata lying in wait back at Scranton, I would have to seriously consider ANY trade that would bring Johan Santana into pinstripes, even if it costs us two of my favorite Yankees (Wang and Melky).



Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443629
10/15/07 08:20 AM
10/15/07 08:20 AM
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Keep Wang, get Santana some other way. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

Yes we piss out of a hole, but I think that would be Holey Piss. Holy Piss is something else, kinda like Holy Shit or Holy Cow. Depends on your religion. \:p ;\)


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: MaryCas] #443635
10/15/07 08:42 AM
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 Originally Posted By: MaryCas
Keep Wang, get Santana some other way. Pitching, pitching, pitching.

Yes we piss out of a hole, but I think that would be Holey Piss. Holy Piss is something else, kinda like Holy Shit or Holy Cow. Depends on your religion. \:p ;\)


All this talk about Wang, piss, etc. makes me yearn for the latrine. \:p

Santana would be a free agent after next year, which is why I would wait, on one hand.

On the other, you take the risk of another team getting Santana through trade, and any trade would involve a long-term contract. So it really is a game of rolling the dice - do you trade away great talent in Wang and Melky, two major parts of the youth movement, for one of (if not the) elite pitcher in the American League? Or do you wait until the end of '08, when he hits the free market, could command an insane contract, and may have already been snatched up by another team?




Re: How bout them Yankees!? [Re: Double-J] #443729
10/15/07 06:31 PM
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New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Since insane contracts have never frightened the Yankees, then why the rush to give away the youth and talent that they have? You've got some definite talent in the pitching staff with Hughes, Kennedy and Chamberlain. Nourish what you have, and pay Santana's price next year. While there may be some tough competition, if the Steinbrenners want him bad enough, they'll prevail.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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