...a pay cut. An insult. Yeah, "Way to go, George!" telling the manager who got you into the post season EVERY SINGLE YEAR but that's not good enough for you cuz you need to win it all! And that's TORRE'S FAULT!! Not the pitchers or batters' fault... it's TORRE'S FAULT!!

There was no mention of Joe being on (despite being mentioned in the monologue), so after Mad Dog is off, I'm turning this shit off. I'd rather watch the end of the Rutgers game, but can't seem to find it.

Should I quote that again?



Torre is a HoF manager, who had an amazing tenure with the Yankees.

But great managers have come and go before, and on even less amiable circumstances.

But of course, wait, here we go:



Enough is enough. It's time for a change.



Well, I've already posted before several flaws which I feel have rendered Torre an ineffective coach, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that. It's more like rationalization about blah, blah, and blah...

And I understand Torre had blah while he was here. But our team hasn't even come close to blah for the past three years. And when I mean blah, I mean, seriously bro, blah.



Let's turn the clock back to '96.



I know. Try to reconcile yourself to the fact that I'm right, and you're wrong.

Best,
Double-J

Or NOT.

Blah blah?

"How George Steinbrenner answered Joe Torre's request for a fair contract."

I still say they should have fired Cashman. There is a long list of overpaid ex all stars on the downside of their careers. I love it when people give him the credit for the good crop of young players but say he wasn't really in charge of the Pavano decision, among others. I guess he only made the good choices, or spent years only responsible for deciding what the giveaways would be on the promo games.

Why the argument against Cashman fails:

1.) EVERY team wanted Pavano when he became a free agent. There were several teams that wanted him. No one could have predicted he'd turn to absolute garbage.

2.) Overpaid ex-all stars. Who? Damon? Yes, I blame Cashman. Sheffield? Wasn't his decision. Giambi? Wasn't his decision.

So who else are you talking about, exactly? Matsui has been fabulous until he was hurt last year, and (clearly) is still having problems adjusting.

Randy Johnson? In spite of what many Yankee fans think, Johnson still had solid years here in New York. Considering he needed back surgery and ended his year this season with the Diamondbacks on the shelf, Cashman looks smart for dealing him.

Mike Mussina on a two-year contract? Okay, I agree that I've never been that high on Moose. But look at the FA list for 2007, and tell me how Mussina's contract wasn't a certifiable deal.

You trying to tell me A-Rod - remember, the deal Cashman made with Texas - is an overpaid former all-star?

3.) You act like those young players are nothing, but the Yankees have several players who can be competent Major League everyday players; among them, many have an elite ceiling. Before Cashman took the reigns, the Yankee farm system was used for one thing: trade bait. Now, it actually is possibly generating another crew of '96ers.

So please, try, try again.

Explain to me what "fair" is, in this case.

I think $5 million - keeping him as the highest paid manager in the league - is certainly "fair," to say the least.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

About what I expected.

Really? That makes me feel old. You may not fully be able to appreciate what an anchor Torre has been for a volatile organization. Back in the 80s Billy Martin got his ass kicked in the clubhouse by Ed Whitson, and it was just another one of Billy's brawls. I think that said, Torre's greatest contribution was maintaining and sustaing a sense of professionalism and pride to a team that played hard every game.

While I felt Torre should have not been subjected to such persistent doubt within the organization, I will admit that he was very well compensated, yes overcompensated. I think he was a very good fit for the Yankees, who made the playoffs for the first time in 14 years a year before he arrived. But I don't think that he would be as successful with a young team as some other managers may be.

I agree with you, DJ, Torre's departure should have no bearing on the decisions of free agents Posada, Rivera and Pettite, who has an option, I believe. Sure, they may lament Torre's leaving, but that is part of the business of the game. If there are other reasons for them wanting to leave, that's fine too.

This afternoon, ESPN is apparently running a special two hour tribute to Torre, which probably embarrasses him. I think this is a little much. He's not dead, and he's going to manage someplace else again, maybe even in 2008. However, ESPN will capitalize on the attention this story is getting. It will all die as soon as NY names Don Mattingly manager.

His press conference is being carried on WFAN live at 2pm.

I agree with Klyd about the free agents. If the money's there they'll stay, and in fairness to Joe, that's what he'd want them to do; make the money while they can.

Not only that, but its kind of hilarious when you hear them talk about how these guys would be coming back to a "totally new organization in 2008" if they re-sign with the Yankees. Yet, several of the key players were there when Donnie Baseball or Joe Girardi were in pinstripes...

I'll tell you; if the reasoning for this shakeup is Torre's quiet dignity, and they're looking for someone with a different personality, they're better off with Girardi than Mattingly. And don't laugh at this one, although I'd be shocked if it happened--Don't discount Bobby Valentine, he's the best manager not currently working in MLB.

Agreed 100%, although I'd rather have Girardi than Valentine.

As I've been saying throughout this thread, my problem with Torre of late had been complacency. I want a manager who is fired up, and fires his players up!

Yeah, I'll buy that DJ, but Bobby V does have the best resume of the names that are floating around (LaRussa notwithstanding, but he's technically employed).Valentine took an absolutely awful 1996 Met team, a pig team, and along with the Piazza signing in 1998, he made them contenders in two years. Love him or hate him, he gets players fired up and gets the job done. If he had a legitimate outfield to work with, the Mets just may have won a World Series during the Bobby V era.

I suggested earlier that Bowa may be the guy if they wanted the opposite of Torre. He screams and throws tantrums, but I see them looking at Girardi and Mattingly.

I think it will be Mattingly because the Yankees have implied that he will be manager some day, and he is older than Girardi. Why make Girardi manager now if the older Mattingly is the future. Mattingly was a quiet guy as a player, and always seemed to me to avoid the limelight.

I'd be shocked if the Yankees hired Bobby Valentine. Something tells me that #2 will have some input on the decision.

I'm not sure about that, Klyd. If Jeter had any input, Joe would have a three year deal right now, although I'm sure they'll float the candidates names out to the players.

He's undoubtedly torre's biggest fan, but as you suggested, I think they'll want to make sure that the next guy gets a thumbs up from Jeter, who is a professional, and will likely proceed as business as usual.

The Yankees have succeeded in taking some attention away from the Bos/Cle series.

Not just that: as A Met fan, I'm very grateful to both the Yankee and Knick management for getting us off the back page!

I would list the "failures" (maybe failure is to strong a word - disappointments?) as these:

Kyle Farnsworth
Carl Pavano
Kevin Brown
Jeff Weaver
Denny Neagle
Mark Wohlers
Jay Witasick
Steve Karsay
Jose Contreras
Javier Vazquez
Esteban Loaiza
Jaret Wright
Octavio Dotel
Kei Igawa

I don't really dislike Cashman - I can't even imagine what it must be like to be a GM with that much owner involvememt. The recent Yankee teams were built to get to the playoffs - good offense that steamrolls through the diluted pitching in baseball. But good pitching beats good hitting, and the pitching in the post season is good. More than anything I am just sorry to see a class act like Torre go.

I don't think Cashman is a bad GM, and I have a little more respect for him than I used to. He gets second guessed from all directions within the organization. I don't know whether guys like Walt Jocketty, Dave Dombrowski or Billy Beane would have operated in such an organization.

Thing about the Yankees is that they can afford to make the mistakes, to which Don Marco alluded whereas signing Kei Igawa for millions gets some other GM fired. But that is the reality. If you have deeper pockets than anyone else in baseball, you don't get hurt when you overpay for talent.

Oh screw all this back office political bullshit. I've had enough. The truth is that NONE of them could give two fucks about the fans! Players, owners, managers, etc. None of them.


The bottom line is how much money they can make. Period.

Let me know when game 1 of the WS starts and after it's over, let me know when there's 1 day till pitchers and catchers.


That's all I care about as a fan of this game.

---------------------------------
"I hate George Steinbrenner because he made Joe Torre cry."

"You think if your father couldn't pay his rent that Joe Torre would care? ... Joe Torre made $7,000,000 a year -- he don't care ..."

----------------------------------

It looks like someone has been watching "A Bronx tale".

Not a bad idea though.

Torre turns down FOX Sports offer

NEW YORK -- Joe Torre's next job could have been World Series analyst.

Torre declined an offer from FOX Sports to call the World Series alongside lead announcer Joe Buck and analyst Tim McCarver, SI.com has learned. FOX Sports president Ed Goren called Torre's agent, Maury Gostfrand, on Friday night to inquire if his client was interested in joining the network for the World Series. Gostfrand called Goren on Saturday to decline the offer.

"His agent called us back today and let us know that Joe was flattered to be asked but respectfully declined because he has made some family commitments," said FOX Sports spokesman Dan Bell. "We completely understand and will go with Joe and Tim in the booth for the World Series."

If Torre does not manage in 2008, broadcasting is a strong possibility. He spent nearly six years as a well-regarded broadcaster for the California Angels from 1985 to 1990, and was an analyst with ESPN during the 1989 National League playoffs and World Series. He even served as the play-by-play voice for KTLA-TV for part of the 1990 season, working with analyst Reggie Jackson.

Torre is known to be close with both Buck and McCarver, who was Torre's Cardinals teammate and roommate in 1973 and 1974. Buck has known Torre since he was a tyke running around the Cardinals clubhouse. Buck's father, Jack, called Cardinals games during Torre's career in St. Louis.

TBS would also be a logical destination for Torre. In addition to its postseason schedule next year, TBS will carry a league-wide package of 26 Sunday afternoon games. Asked about the possibility of adding Torre to his roster, Turner Sports executive producer Jeff Behnke said in an email this week to SI.com: "As we do with all our sports, we will evaluate every component of our productions during the offseason to see how we can improve our on-air product."

Source: FOX Sports

Hank Steinbrenner, George's son who is probably now running the day-to-day operations of the team, came out publically today taking a shot at Joe Torre. Hanky Panky essentially said Joe Torre was an ingrate because Daddy Steinhitler hired Torre back in '95 when Torre was a nobody, and that he (Torre) was "handed" a great team to manage. Now, as Hanky sees it, Joe is showing himself to be ungrateful to Daddy.

Hanky appears to be a poster boy of why parents should practice birth control.

Yeah I read that too

Somebody PLEASE lock this topic until March. These Yankee fans just refuse to realize that they are no longer the center of attention in the baseball world.

They're dead! Morte! Finished! Get over yourselves!

Hey now, you asked us to move it outta the playoff discussions thread which I have obliged. This is a Yankees thread for Yankee discussions, year round. We've talked for years post-October about the upcoming season, disappointments during the season and playoffs, etc. Add on the fact that Joe Torre, probably one of the three greatest Yankee managers ever just walked away and the end of an era has been born. Yeah, some discussion is going to be at hand.