When Sonny is done 'visiting' with Lucy Mancini, he walks out of her apartment and tells his bodyguards "Save it for the library -- Come on, we got to go pick up my sister -- let's go."


The Corloene's were at war. Sonny was a hunted man who shouldn't have even been outside the Corleone compound.

Now why in the world would he ever jeapordize his sister's life by personaly going to pick up his sister and put her in his presence, out in public, during a mob war when his enemies were looking to kill him?

Good question. As the novel points out, his movements had been charted by the enemy. But as long as he didn't do it too often, he felt safe. Also, the Tattaglia's hadn't streamlined themselves for war.

Tom also had to know that Sonny was leaving the compound and would be going over to pick up his sister.

This was a gross mistake on BOTH Sonny and Tom's part in allowing Connie to be put in such a vulnerable position during a mob war.

Sonny wasn't as smart as Mike and Fredo.

True, Sonny should not have been seen outside the estate.

But there's no way that Sonny would have been able to go without seeing Lucy for the duration of the war. He couldn't bring her to the mall.

Unless something extraordinary happened, I don't think Connie's life would have been in danger from anyone except Carlo. She was a relative and non-combatant. More to the point as the novel suggests if the Families start going after women and children they are all equally vulnerable to retaliation.

There is of course the Apollonia exception but one could argue that that was a mistake.

As far as Sonny picking up his sister I think that was just the film's and novel's method of having Sonny see first hand exactly what Carlo does to Connie.

It would made more sense for one of Connie's girlfriends or even a low level Corleone associate to drive her out to Long Beach.

All of Sonny's mistakes, critical or not, stem from his essentially impulsive manner. He often acts without thinking and wants things when he wants them. Good or bad, that's just his nature. Whether he's trying to protect baby sis, slap Mike upside the head for joining the Marines, or speak out of turn in a business meeting Sonny always has a very short delay between thought and action

It may have only been in the novel, but Sonny once said that he had to pick up Connie because Carlo was to cheap to buy her a car. If he knew that Carlo was beating her, wouldn't he have made sure that she had a method of escape by just GIVING her a damn car??

Also, couldn't one of his guards have picked Connie up instead of him doing it? Didn't he have other things to to??

Once Sonny was already in the City to visit Lucy it wouldn't have been too much of an issue to go visit Connie. The initial mistake was going into the city.

I guess Sonny could have bought her a car but Carlo would have just confiscated the keys anyway. And maybe buying another man's wife such a gift (even if she is your sister) would been seen by the Don as undue interference...

It's allright because as we can see, he had all his bodyguards with him waiting at the bottom of the stairs.

And as we can also see, or one of his men looks both ways to signal an 'all clear' before Sonny walks out the front door of the building.

Also, as part of the storyline it HAD to be Sonny who arrived to pick up Connie at the apartment so he could see her bruises and be freaked enough to go and beat the crap out of Carlo...in itself another 'risky' hotheaded move if you want to continue being nitpicky about it.

Apple

There are some of us who veiw it as being nitpicky, and some who just love the movie so much that they enjoy passing the time, laughing and having fun speculating about it.

I'm the latter.

In the novel Michael wonders how long Sonny could remain couped up at the mall.

I realize all of that about Sonny not being able to stay couped up, about his needing to see Lucy, etc.

But the real point here is that he was negligent in that he would put his sister in such a vulnerable position during a time of war. Think about it, Sonny even wants to send Michael, a 'civilian' at the time, over to Luca's place and I believe that it is Tom who suggests that they should keep Mikey out of it.

That may be so, but how easy it would be to get caught up in a crossfire!

The short answer is that FFC needed a dramatic device to set up Sonny's discovery of Carlo's brutality, and the memorable beating of Carlo.
But it was also consistent with Sonny's character: thinking with his dick (as in continuing to play out that comedy with the maid of honor), and his recklessness. A stretch--and I mean a stretch--is that Sonny thought that by picking up Connie, a "civilian," the other gangs wouldn't attack him on his way back to the mall. As I said, a stretch.

Yes, but I think the reason they wanted to keep Mikey out of it was not just to protect him but also to make it clear to everyone (in line with the Don's wishes) that Michael was a non-combatant, not a criminal and off limits. Showing up with thugs at Luca's place asking questions would have alerted Tattaglia and others that Mike was a player on the board.

As a woman, in that time and place no one would have mistaken Connie for anything other than a civilian. It is even possible that had hitters been able to surprise Sonny with Connie in the car they MIGHT have waited to get him alone.

As late as the seventies and eighties it was considered a serious breach of mob etiquette to deal with an enemy in front of his women (wife, mother, sister). The events in Philadelphia relaxed this taboo.

If the Corleones had given Carlo a house on the mall perhaps with Sonny literally next door, Don's orders or not, he wouldn't have been so quick to lay his hands on Connie. And just possibly if the Family had given Carlo something more important (and yet completely removed from any real Family business) he wouldn't have felt the need to take his frustrations out on his wife.

It's fun to speculate. But in any event Carlo lived where he lived and did what he did. It was necessary to move the story along and show the critical flaw in Sonny's nature.

Possible. But then again, they may not even know that it was his sister, or may not even known that he had his sister in the car. Maybe they learn that he goes to visit his gumare and they think that Lucy is in the car. A million scenerios. But the bottom line is that he took a chance by attempting to put his sister in his company, outside the compound.



Yes, to a degree. But those kinds of mob rules were more folklore more than anything else. How many times throughout Mob history have drive by shootings which were really hit attempts taken the lives of some innocent bystander? Where did that rule of not dealing with the enemy in fron of family go when they killed Crazy Joe Gallo?



I believe that in the novel it was either after after Sonny's murder or the Don's death that they did move them to the mall.




Yes it is. It's absolutely fun to speculate and see what others think "could" have taken place if "this" wasn't allowed to happen or "if so and so" did "this" instead of "that"!

As Turnbull said, "FFC needed a dramatic device to set up Sonny's discovery of Carlo's brutality, and the memorable beating of Carlo." But if we were talking real life here, it would have been poor judgement on the part of a Mob Boss to place his sister in harms way like that.

But by the 90's, everyone was fair game. After Lucchese captain Fat Pete Chiodo turned rat, Anthony (Gaspipe) Casso and Alfonse D'Arco shot and nearly killed his sister, then shot and killed his uncle. No more civilians...




Poor judgment was Sonny's middle name.

Yes, in the novel after Sonny's death the Don moved Carlo into a mall house and moved him into the unions where he cold do alot of talking and also because he was short of sons.

I agree. I just don't think the risk was huge. It was there, no doubt. Good point about mistaken identity.



Yeah, that's why I qualified that comment by stating as late as the seventies and eighties. It was also a violation of mob rules to do open murder in Little Italy but Crazy Joe was a special case. But the main reason that I think they would have hesitated before making a move on Sonny with Connie in the car (assuming they knew it was her) was that they immediately place the lives of their boss's female relatives at stake-more importantly they place their own lives at stake. If the gunmen kill Connie then Barzini or Tattaglia may well kill the gunmen and sue for peace...



As mentioned Sonny never should have been outside of the mall in the first place. In real life, probably Carlo would have been even more severely beaten or just disappeared as what happened when John Gotti or Paul Castellano were annoyed by abusive or disrepectful in-laws. Good posts.

Poor judgment was Sonny's middle name.

I agree. But there were moments in the movie where he had the right idea. He was the first one to suggest that Sollozzo be killed, but Tom talked him out of it by saying all the Families would come after him. If Michael hadn't said, "We can't wait" on killing Sollozzo, Tom would have still been trying to negotiate.

Tom also erronesouly thought that the Families had stopped fighting because the Families had been quiet when Sonny suggested killing Tattalgia. So even though Tom wasn't as implusive and reckless as Sonny was, he had some lapses in judgement as well that put the family at risk.

I agree they left women and children out of their wars back then, so Connie was in no real danger. Sonny, by telegrphing his every move, of course was.