One thing that was never clear to me was how did Michael know that it was Roth that tried to kill him at his home? (as he tells Frankie when he visits him in New York.)

By this point, it seemed as though it might have been Frankie based on the disagreement they had earlier that night...Roth and him were in on a big deal...Roth gave his approval in moving Klingman out.

So, obviously, Michael was right, but by this point in the film, what exactly told him that it was Roth? How was he so sure by the time he goes to Frankie?

While people may (and will) argue as to whether there was a single "smoking gun" that made it obvious it was Roth, Michael must have had suspicions about Roth already. A few years back Michael had Roth's protege, Moe Green, murdered and now Michael was moving in on Roth's businesses in Las Vegas and Cuba. So Michael must have assumed that there would be a response at some point to this.

In addition Michael doesn't want to tip his hand to Roth because he still doesn't know who he can trust in his Family. Someone had (inadvertently or otherwise) to give Roth's gunmen access to Michael's estate, information about Michael's whereabouts, etc.

So he goes and does his "dutiful son" routine to Roth, who appears to eat it up. Notice that Roth does not appear to be saddened, frustrated or angry about the attempt on Michael's life.

Then Michael appears in NY, unbeknownst to Pentangeli, and lets his true feelings show. Pentangeli is frightened and angry but most importantly Michael gets the accurate sense that Pentangeli is too loyal to have made an attempt on his boss' life. Pentangeli is also not as skilled as hiding his true feelings as Roth is. If it wasn't Pentangeli then it was likely Roth.

If Frankie was hellbent on disobeying Michael he probably just would have started an open war with the Rosato Brothers, rather than take the much riskier step of killing a Family head.

While Roth obviously would have preferred that his hitters got Michael in Lake Tahoe, he also would have liked the possibility of an alive and enraged Michael launching a war against the Pentangeli faction of the Corleone Family.

Micahel gets confirmation of all this when he asks Roth "Who killed Pentangeli... Who gave the order? I know I didn't.."

Well said Lilo!

And when Michael asks him who gave the go ahead,

Roth does not reply with an I don't know answer or a why do you care? The guy tried having you killed in your own home, kind of answer, but instead with the how DARE you ask me about Pentangeli! I never asked you about Moe Green! answer :

There was this kid I grew up with -- he was younger than me. Sorta looked up to me ...... As much as anyone, I loved him -- and trusted him......Someone put a bullet through his eye. No one knows who gave the order -- when I heard it, I wasn't angry... I let it go. And I said to myself, this is the business we've chosen -- I didn't ask who gave the order -- because it had nothing to do with business!


Roth, had hoped that Michael would blame Frankie Five Angels for the attempted hit in Tahoe and therefore himself would have ordered a hit on Frankie, which in turn would have given Roth and his Rosato brothers more power in New York and at the same time removed a much trusted ally to the Corleones in Frank Pentangeli. It was an attempt to try and weaken Michael that much more in what our friend Turnbull always refers to as the
great chess game between Roth and Michael.

I agree with all of the above. Plus, Frankie was too obviously set up as the fall guy for the shooting. What would Frankie have to gain from whacking Michael? To run his family without Michael on his back? He'd never get away with it. Frankie was, as Roth later said, "small potatoes."

I think Michael made a near-instantaneous calculation right after the shooting, and figured that Roth had far, far more to gain from his death. I think he saw very clearly in that moment that Roth resented Michael's relentless incursions on Roth's Nevada gaming empire and his designs on Havana. What's more, Roth was "legitimate"--where Michael wanted to be--and would continue to be legitimate after Michael was gone. But Frankie would still be a Mafia guy, with neither the "wit" (Michael's word about Zasa) or the imagination to achieve more.

I think that Freddie really told his broth mike the Hyman Roth was a trader to kill him

Good insights here all around. In the boathouse scene Michael indirectly indicates to Tom he has an idea about who is behind this. He sais "If what I think happened, happened...." that there was serious trouble brewing. Note he left Tahoe immediately and headed straight to Miami to make Roth think he was blaming Pentangeli.

Michael had another reason for leaving Tahoe that very night:

Michael knew that, although he was the target, Roth had no scruples about killing Kay or anyone who got in the way at Tahoe. So, by removing himself from Tahoe, he removed the target. More important: by sucking up to Roth, he bought precious time to protect himself and his family. His guiding principle, as he told Hagen before he left, was: think as those around you think.

Michael saw that Roth was very careful to mask his role in the Tahoe attack. Roth waited for Anthony’s party because he knew that Pentangeli would be there, contentious over Michael’s support of the Rosato Brothers. Frankie therefore had perfect motivation to kill Michael, and would have made a perfect patsy. Since the attack failed, Michael figured that Roth would have to strike again quickly, before Michael figured out that Pentangeli wasn’t the guilty party. By visiting Roth in Miami, by affirming that their deal was still good, and most important, by agreeing to go to Havana, Michael was helping Roth to find a reason to keep him alive until then, and to leave his family alone. That gave Michael time to figure out who the traitor was, and to plan Roth's demise.

I know this has been batted around before, but why did he take a train, and from where did it leave? I don't think there was a Tahoe-Miami expres back then, or ever for that matter.

The nominal reason, I'm sure, was to give FFC a chance to shoot a more dramatic scene w/better lighting in a train compartment than in an airplane. It also gave us a better shot of the bodyguard, who we see for the first time.

But there may have been logical reasons, too:

Jet aircraft were introduced into US commercial aviation only a few months before that scene (December '58). If Michael had wanted to fly to Miami, he' have to take a puddlejumper from Tahoe to Vegas, the nearest "real" airport, and from there take a (probable) prop plane to either Chicago, St. Louis or Kansas City, and thence to Miami. It'd be arduous in any event. And, with that many stops, a foe could have had ample opportunity to attack him (look what happened to Roth at Miami International). So, Michael might have felt safer on a train, in a private compartment, with only his bodyguard inside. The longer time for travel also might have given him more opportunity to think.

You're probably right about Tahoe not being an express stop, or any stop, on a swift passenger train at that time. But I'll bet that Reno was--and Reno's only 61 miles from Tahoe. Or, he could have driven to Sacramento, another probable express stop--104 miles from Tahoe. Not Vegas, though--it's 453 miles from Tahoe.

I agree that the train was likely an exercise in dramatic license. Given the quickness of Michael's departure, his destination and the secrecy surrounding his trip, and the utter lack of communication channels at that time, I don't think a plane would have been any more risk than the train. I also don't think the train would have been any less arduous from Tahoe/Reno to Miami, though there was far greater rail service in the 1950's than there is today. It simply would have been a long trip.

Michael could have have boarded the California Zephyr or the City of San Francisco, both of which served northern Nevada on their routes between the Bay Area and Chicago. While Amtrak serves Reno today, I can't say for certain that it would have been a stop along the route of the two most prominent west coast trains of the day. However, there were station stops a short drive from Reno east or west on the those rail lines. Either of those two trains would have carried him directly to Chicago where he would have boarded another train, possibly the Illinois Central's City of Miami or the Pennsylvania's Southwind, with direct service to Miami. It's also possible he may have made his way to San Francisco where he could have boarded the Southern Pacific's "Sunset Limited" from San Francisco to New Orleans making a connection in the Crescent City to Florida.

Since, in theory, nobody but Michael knew his final destination, he must have felt the secrecy of his trip coupled with the speed of his departure minimized his risk. Moreover, I can't imagine anyone would have guessed that Michael would have immediately left Tahoe bound for Miami and a meeting/confrontation with Hyman Roth.

None-the-less, by train from Northern Neveda connecting through Chicago to Miami, or connecting through New Orleans to Miami...I gotta think that's a four or five day trip!

tony b.

Roth had to know, for two reasons:
First, he needed to be aware that Michael was coming so he'd be ready for their meeting--and to dispatch Johnny Ola to greet him and direct him to Roth's home.
Second, as I posted elsewhere: Immediately after the shooting, Michael was certain, or almost certain, that Roth had ordered it. Though he was the target, Roth showed he had no compunctions about mowing down Kay or anyone else who got in the way. Since Roth had help, there was a traitor at the compound--and the traitor could organize another, even more ruthless, attempt on Michael that could endanger his family. So, he needed to remove the target (himself) and at the same time buy time from Roth until he could identify the traitor. As long as Roth thought he could lure Michael to Havana and get the $2 million from him, Michael and his family were (temporarily) safe. So, I'm guessing, he or Tom contacted Roth before he left Tahoe to let him know he was coming. The long trip would extend the "safe" period.

Another nice little charade that Roth and Michael played on each other:
--Although Michael knew Roth was behind the Tahoe shooting, and figured he was safe as long as Roth thought he'd get the $2 million, Michael drove the car and the bodyguard sat in the back, looking out the window, as if they suspected an ambush from "the perps." Nice signal from Michael that he didn't suspect Roth, and thought he might be in danger from foes unknown.
--Although Roth knew he was behind the Tahoe shooting, he had Johnny Ola take an apparently circuitous route to his home, and run inside to make sure "things were ok," so Michael would think he (Roth) was in the same danger simply by hosting Michael.
Clever fellows.

Given those two reasons TB, yes, Roth would have had to know about the trip in advance. However, why go see Roth at all? Ola had just met with Mike on Roth's behalf and given Mike the go-ahead for the Tropigala takeover. So, why the arduous journey to meet with Roth?

The assassination attempt had just taken place, then Mike leaves. Mike didn't have much time to prepare, to make any arrangements. Ola was still in Nevada probably when Mike left. Ola would have had to beat Mike back to Miami. When was there time to make all these arrangements. And, again, why go to Miami in the first place?

Michael's top priority was to buy time to find out who the traitor was in his family. He could leave nothing to chance. That's why I believe he needed to look Roth in the eye, convince him, face to face, that their deal was still good, that "Frank Pentangeli was a dead man," that he would go on to Havana and hand over the $2 million. He couldn't build a convincing case any other way except through a personal meeting.

I don't know TB. Michael's trip had to be planned before the Communion. Do you agree? However, if planned in advance, he would not have had at that time sufficient evidence of a traitor in the family. So, there wold no have been any need to gain time.

Then Ola shows up at the Communion and pretty well affirms that Roth is in Michael's corner, true or not. It's only through the Geary meeting that Mike gets any indication of a traitor. Then the shooting. Mike could have easily passed word to Roth that the deal was still on and that he thought it was Pentangeli or anybody else who tried to kill him. That would have bought him all the time he needed.

I go by a bit of dialog with Tom after the shooting: "If what I think has happened has happened, I leave tonight."

Please explain.

Geary knew about the intended move on the Tropigala. I don't think there's any indication of a traitor prior to that.

Also, regarding Mike's train trip, it doesn't seem he could have made all of the arrangements for it (including Roth's being in town and Ola making it back to Miami) that night. So, it must have been planned in advance.