Vito’s policy was to give orders to subordinates one at a time, so there’d be no corroborating witnesses against him if someone turned rat. But he had all five members of his hierarchy—Sonny, Tom, Fredo, Tessio and Clemenza—present when he gave his “no” to Sollozzo. Why? He could have more easily said no to Sol in private, or had Tom do it.

I believe the reason was that Vito’s “no” on drugs was aimed as much at his family’s hierarchy as at Sol. He wanted everyone to hear the “no” simultaneously. He knew about the greed that enormous drug profits generated. Sonny and Tom were hot for the profits. If they were, so would Tess and Clem—probably Fredo, too. And Vito knew that Sol knew it. He’d expect Sol to start probing for greed in his family even after his “no.” So, to shore up his armor, Vito fired a shot across everyone’s bows. Now, anyone, even his sons, who might get into drugs behind his back, would be a traitor. And, given human nature, they’d all be watching each other, so any sign of disloyalty (or sudden wealth) would be reported to Vito.

Now for the ironies:

First, when Sonny shot his mouth off, he undid the very purpose of Vito’s holding the public meeting. Had Vito met with Sol privately, Sonny would never have had that opportunity. But Sonny’s gaffe saved Sol months of dangerous probing for weaknesses. He became the c***k in the Don’s armor. He also provided Sol with a rationale for getting the other Dons’ permission to whack Vito. They were greedy for drug profits. But they’d never approve of attacking Vito if it meant a long, costly, bloody war. Now Sol told them: “There isn’t gonna be a war. Sonny’s hot for my deal and Hagen knows it’s the right thing. Sure, Sonny’ll howl for blood. But sooner rather than later, Hagen will convince him that, with Vito gone, the Corleones have been severely weakened, and they need the profits from drugs more than ever. Relax, guys: it’s a slam-dunk.”

Second, by failing to kill Vito, Sol did the one thing guaranteed to prevent a deal on drugs. Tom, at least, was still hot for the deal (“If your father dies, Sonny, you make the deal”). But as long as Vito breathed, he had no authority to proceed. Ditto Sonny. Plus, Sonny already knew that his gaffe had enabled the shooting. Had he made a deal while Vito was alive, he’d be betraying his father—and creating the impression in the family that he may have been in cahoots with Sol all along to become Don and get rich through drugs.

Third, Vito told Michael (much later), “Women and children can afford to be careless. But not men.” He was cautioning Michael--and, as many of us here agree, acknowledging his own carelessness with Sol. But Sol was careless in his choice of assassins for Vito. Those two guys really botched it. They were armed with puny weapons: probably a .32 revolver and a .25 autoloader, both weak rounds fired from guns with short barrels that further reduced the bullets’ velocity and energy. They should have known that Vito’s winter coat would slow the bullets even more. Though the guns held at least 12 rounds total (probably more), they only fired nine shots, of which only five hit Vito—pretty piss-poor shooting. They got close to Vito, but not close enough to score a mortal hit. And they didn’t stick around for the coupe de grace, as did the guys who machine-gunned Sonny.

I think that also Vito wanted to present a united front to Sollozzo which required the presence of the family hierarchy at the meeting.

So many ironies and gaffes. Had Vito not stopped to buy fruit, what then of Vito's attempted murder?

Great points TB, but here is a later irony...armed with this bit about carelessness, Michael decides to send one man with a small caliber pistol to kill his archenemy Barzini,
and as it turns out he has to shoot him at a range that was nearly impossible to guarantee death.

...ah, yes indeed...but then, Neri had been a cop, and the "good guys" (even former good guys) always prevail in the movies.

unless the movie is done by the coen brothers lol :-D

and TB, I think that, although Vito was don and could do as he wished regardless, I believe he still wanted the opinions of others, as he was not a stubborn and one-sided man. Another reason for everyone to be there... introduction to Sol, a man that Vito got the feeling his family should probably know of, in the time to come. And also to give his family a lesson in humility, as he did not come to Sollozzo with a dominearing (sp?) swagger, that he had all the right to possess (although this was not his character). Afterall... who is this no name punk coming in attempting to completely morph the organized crime scene that had been run a certain way for so long?

I can't agree with you here, Frank. Vito got the opinions he wanted from Tom and Sonny after Tom got back from California. The purpose of the all-hands meeting was to show Sol that the family was unified with Vito in rejecting his offer. The last thing he would want would be any kind of discussion that might show Sollozzo to think he had allies in the Corleone family--unfortunatley, just what Sonny accomplished when he shot his mouth off.
And since Sol was "known as a top narcotics man," and since Vito regarded drugs as a mortal threat to his family, the last thing he'd want would be for members of his family to have any contact with Sol, even if the contacts had nothing to do with drugs.

I agree with both Frank and TB, Vito got his opinions from Tom and Sonny and also wanted a lot of people there to get familiar with the young Turk who would probably be a .90 caliber soon.

This also serves the purpose of putting Solozzo off guard being outnumbered 5 to 1 and not being on his home turf.

oh, TB, I agree. I must not have explained my mind well enough... I didn't mean that they would be having "contact" with Sol; I was thinking more that Vito wanted the family to be familiar with what kind of character they would be "dealing with" in the future, not dealing with (if you get my drift).
BUT... on the flip-side, there would be no reason for Sol to believe that he had any allies in the Corleone family, had Vito come alone. He would automatically assume that the head of the family was the decision that the family was going with. now, in that case, he may have attempted to infiltrate and pull out a rebel (ie. Luca) but that would be EXTREMELY risky on his part.

And i also agree with Longneck, the decision to have everyone there was just for security and put up a strong showing.

I'm with TB here. The whole idea of the meeting among Vito, Tom and Hagen was to make the decision ahead of time. The purpose of the Sollozzo meeting was not so much to intimidate him as to a) show him how much they respected him and b) to show him the Corleones were unified in their position not to do business with him. I also agree it served Vito well internally to fire a shot across everyone's bow that he would not tolerate any maverick capos selling frugs behind his back.
In the movie Vito is very respectful and solicitous of Sol, telling him he wanted to meet with him because he was a "serious man" to be treated with "respect." During the conversation he says he doesn't mind at all what a man does for a living, and even when they say godbye he wishes Sol luck and says he is sure he will succeed, and that the drug business without him is fine so long as Sol's business doesn't interfere with Vito's business.

Vito's mistake in the movie (and perhas this was done for dramatic effect) was to listen to Tom and Sonny, who both favored getting into it, and hten not telling them ahead of time the decision and the reasons for it. In the movie the pre meeting discussion ends with Sonny saying ..."so what's it gonna be Pop?" and then a shot of Vito witha sort of blank expression. He should have told them then and there his answer was going to be "no," and given them his reasons. If Sonny wanted to vent that would have been the That meeting should have ended with Vito instructing Sonny that this meeting was happening to show Sol the Corleones respected him, that he could do what he wanted unless it interfered with them (a veiled threat) and that he was not going for the deal. He also could have said no one talks but himself. Without having such a resolution ahead of time what's the point of the meeting with Tom and Sonny?

That's an excellent point, dt. We might infer that Vito hadn't made up his mind at that point, but he had. In the novel, Tom tells him (at Connie's wedding) that he couldn't put off the Sol meeting any longer. Vito said yes to the meeting, then added, "What he will propose is an infamia." His seeming diffidence after the Sonny/Tom meeting was illogical. The only thing he might have tried to accomplish at that point was to mislead Tom and Sonny into believing that he was considering their viewpoint, but it was a serious mistake. If Sonny had gone into the meeting thinking that there'd be a chance that Vito would approve, then a shrewdie like Sol would have seen the disappointment on his face even if he hadn't shot his mouth off--and have seen that famous c***k in Vito's armor.

Trying not to mix the novel and the movie can get increasingly difficult when discussing the finer points, but here there seems to be a divegence. Vito's arguments against the drug trade in the movie have nothing to do with drugs being an infamnia, but instead his reasoning is very business like and measured. Basically he posits that if the police, judges and politicians knew their business was drugs and not women and gambling [and running unions] they would withdraw their support. Later, when they make the great compromise, the "infamnia" is to sell drugs to children, in the Italian neighborhoods or near schools

"infamia"??? I don't know what this means, but I do agree with you guys, but I also believe that Vito wanted to show his family his coy interaction with Sol (the brushing off of his knee, the very "matter of fact" tone, etc). either way, Vito should have made the Family's position (as it was not just his) perfectly clear when he talked to Santino and Tom (as DT pointed out), if he, indeed, did know his position at that point.

But I, don't think he knew at that point though. We have no reason to believe, as the audience, that Vito would manipulate his sons by making them think he was considering their POV. He is their leader, their father so I don't think he was trying to hold diplomacy.

Sometimes it's spelled Infamita: infamous. Same as saying terrible, bad, uggh, the worst.

thanks Oliv

More ironies regarding drugs.

In GF II and GF III The Corleone family's unwillingness to be in the drug business plays a significant role in driving the plots.

In II Frank Pentangeli's main beef with the Rosatos is they deal drugs and whores and leave gambling behind. This leads to Michael's intervention and the peace conference with the Rosatos which results in Frankie's capture and the perjury trap Roth tried to set up.

In III The reason Michael appears to be holding Zasa back from rising in the commission is that he is selling drugs in the old neighborhoods. ALthough he brushes off Connie's complaint about this, in the Atlantic City scene he makes a big deal about Zasa's drug business.

There may be more than a little Mafia hypocrisy in all of the above, dt:

Vito eventually caved in on drugs--admittedly under duress, in order to bring Michael back home. But there's no indication that Michael terminated the legal/political protection the Corleones were providing the other Dons after Michael took over. And there's no liklihood, IMO, that cold, calculating Michael would have walked away from drug profits after he became The Big Boy. Vito, recall, was opposed to prostitution, but by II, Fredo's running a brothel.

Frankie complained that everything with them [the Rosatos, emphasis added] is women, broads--an' a babania, junk. An' they leave the gambling for last." He might have been complaining that the Rosatos were spending too much time on prostitution and drugs, and not enough on gambling, rather than flat-out objecting to them being in those businesses. And Tom told Michael that, when Frankie was in police hands after the attempted murder, the cops "already had him on possession, Murder One..." Possession of what? Drugs?

As for Zasa: Michael was sticking it to him as a hypocrite and liar. I think he was keeping Zasa from rising in the Commission because he saw Zasa as a pazzo and a publicity hound. But, I will bet Zasa paid Michael a tribute for operating the old "Olive Oil Business" that belonged to the Corleones. And like other Mafia chieftans, I believe Michael would look at the money given to him--and look the other way at its sources.

1. Vito personally had a strict moral code but he said he had no problems with running operations like gambling and women, and other things forbidden by the Church and the pezzanovante.

2. Possession of liquor from a bar that was supposed to be closed?

3. Michael angry cause someone was a hypocrite and a liar????? I am SHOCKED! SHOCKED!

Both of you are right. Vito objected to drugs because he thought they could endanger his other interests. Yes, I took it that Frankie thought the Rosatos spent too much time on drugs and broads and not that they dealth with them in the first place. Mike's objection to Zasa's drug dealings was that he thought Zasa dealt drugs in the old neighborhood, not in Harlem or other parts of NY.