Ok boys and girls, as the "Primaries" thread keeps sinking into oblivion its time to start a new one on the finals...McCain v. Obama.

Lets try to keep this objective at times and partisan at others, but lets keep out the ad hominem attacks on fellow posters.

I would make the following observations:

1. The current polls showing them in a dead heat will change as Obama consolidates power and Hillary supporters start coming to their senses. He probably gets about a 9 point bounce IMHO and goes into the conventions about 10 points ahead.

2. McCain sees to be enjoying a huge electoral vote advantage
and I don't see Obama winning unless he can poach a few states like Virginia and New Mexico and carry Pa, and either Ohio or Mich. I think Florida will go heavily for McCain. McCain's
Veep choice will not help him, but could hurt him. Obama has little choice. Jim Webb or The Governor of Ohio.

3. Both men are desperately trying to define each other. McCain saying Obama is Carter and Obama saying McCain is Bush. So far neither candidate looks like he is going to be pushed around by the other, and the rapid responses may actually get us debating issues and not the nonsense we see on cable (the latest being a tease on Faux News that Obama's new hand bump gimmick is a secret jihadist code).

4. McCain's move to do the town hall meetings is the smartest move of the campaign so far by either candidate. It is the only forum in which he does well, and the only forum in which Obama doesn't. Obama cannot say no to this concept, and he is going to have to lighten up a bit and be faster on his feet than he has been in other one one one encounters. The danger IMHO for McCain is that if these go deep into the camaign there is a greater chance that he will commit a gaffe out of fatigue, or his temper. The danger for Obama is to figure out a way to explain how he is going to pay for do all these wonderful things he is romising us without looking like an old time tax and spend Democrat. The blessing to all of us is that it will be McCain and Obama asking each other questions and taking questions from real people instead of all these self important media types.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

Absolutely inevitable.

The die hard feminists that are screaming their heads off about the media being sexist and "rigging" the primary have to ask themselves just one question, After all we supposedly stood for in the 60s and 70s, can we really vote for a Pro-Life candidate? If they would, they're the biggest hypocrites I've ever encountered.

By the way, I'm making an observation. Democrat that I am, I am Catholic first and do NOT believe in abortion.

I'm a candidate for abortion!

I'm Pro-Death myself...Pro Death Penalty, Pro Abortions.

I believe that a woman's choice is a very personal one, and I don't believe that the government has the right to legislate it. While I don't believe in abortion as birth control, I don't want to see it made illegal again either. I think that every woman should have options if they find themselves in that situation, and I think that the government shouldn't limit those options.

That said, I don't want to turn this into a pro-choice/pro-life debate. This is about the candidates, and it should remain so.

I don't understand, given the low approval rating that President Bush currently has, the lack of support for the continuance of the war, the state of the economy, and so on, that McCain could possibly have any chance of winning. However, we may just be that stupid.

Or that racist.

I'm going to put it out there. If Obama loses to what amounts to the third coming of Bush, it can only be because of the racial aspect of it.

...Or Women are willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces, and vote for McCain just because Obama beat Clinton.

If Barack Obama wins you know what will happen??

One good thing might be that the black people will feel more respected and stop selling drugs. They will also stop going on about the slavery issue.

I don't hear of anything about the Jews moaning about how they were massacred by the Nazis. What do the blacks really want??

I'd love to see Obama win and I don't even live in the States. But racism is alive and living.

I'm gonna go lie down. When I get up, if you're gone, I know I'll have a message board to post on. If you are still here, I know I won't.

I'm going. Bye!!!

MMB, don't go away.

Bennet!! You really are a tripper!

I support the African Americans and wanna see Obama win. It would be a history inducing moment. But he may get assassinated, like JFK, by the Lowriders or another group.

Here America - good luck to the winner. Get the boys out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

I hope that I am wrong, but too many closet racists and too many outright racists will probably keep Obama from getting elected.

Regarding the rabid Hillary supporters, I saw this woman on last night who claimed that the media were "misogynists" for their treatment of Clinton and "forcing" her out of the race. I wanted to scream at this woman. Focus on the real issue if you're going to throw that label out there: McCain called his WIFE the c-word! It does not get more misogynistic than that.

I hope that there are enough smart people in this country to realize that even though McCain is not as bad as Bush (how could he be?), McCain will inevitably carry out many of the same or similar agendas regarding foreign policy and our economy. I just don't see how most people, who have the ability to think beyond skin color, can say that we would better off with the state of the economy carrying forward as the status quo and that the Iraq War should continue down an endless path of another 4 years. But I have serious reservations as to whether enough people can vote beyond skin color.

And for those Clinton supporters who vote for McCain simply because they didn't get their candidate, I feel sorry for you. Obama won fair and square, so get over it. Is she capable - absolutely, but she did not get it done and used a poor campaign strategy since February. I don't really blame her so much as her advisors for a lack of vision and sense of inevitability. And now she has to live with the outcome. A spite vote for McCain is plain dumb.

Why is that? Is there anything inherently superior about Obama's poilicies that anyone who chooses to vote against him is doing so because of race? What if people don't like his poilicies or don't trust him enough to carry out whatever he claims?

Anything NOT resembling the Bush administration is inherently superior. How long would you like this war to go on?

I don't support the war and don't see why any candidate(mc cain here) would like to continue with it. But that is a topic with a large consensus. I feel that other aspects are much more polarized compared to war.

Or her followers will stay home and not vote at all.

I'm looking forward to the debates.

AND McCain left his first wife after she had suffered an accident and was ugly... McCain didnt support his ex when she needed it.

Obama veep vetting team looks at retired military,
By NEDRA PICKLER and MARY CLARE JALONICK, Associated Press


WASHINGTON - Barack Obama is considering former top military leaders among his possible running mates, according to a senator who met Tuesday with the Democratic presidential candidate's vice presidential vetting team.

North Dakota Sen. Kent Conrad told The Associated Press said the team asked him about potential candidates from three broad categories — current top elected officials, former top elected officials, and former top military leaders.

Conrad would not disclose which names they discussed, and the Obama campaign has been keeping the process a closely guarded secret.

"We talked about many names," Conrad said, including "some that are out of the box but I think would be very well received by the American people, including former top military leaders."

Obama has a three-person team managing the vetting process that includes one-time first daughter Caroline Kennedy, former Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder and the former CEO of mortgage lender Fannie Mae, Jim Johnson.

The vetters have been holding meetings with several Democratic lawmakers on Capitol Hill to get their input. Conrad met with Holder and Johnson.

"I sensed from this meeting that they are still very much building the list and at the same time evaluating possibilities," Conrad said. "It's very clear they have reached no conclusions, not even tentative conclusions."

Many former military leaders have been involved in the 2008 Democratic presidential campaign. Some of Obama's most prominent campaign advisers have been Gen. Tony McPeak, who was Air Force chief of staff during Operation Desert Storm; Maj. Gen. Scott Gration, who flew repeated combat missions and has worked with Obama on a range of military issues since before he began his presidential campaign; and Richard Danzig, who was secretary of the Navy under President Clinton.

He might also look at some of former rival Hillary Rodham Clinton's top military advisers in a gesture of unity, retired generals who include Hugh Shelton, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; or Wesley Clark, who led the war in Kosovo and ran in the presidential primary four years ago. Virginia Sen. Jim Webb, who served as Navy secretary under President Reagan, has also been frequently mentioned as a possible running mate.

Campaigning in St. Louis, Obama was asked about criticism from Republican rival John McCain of Johnson having received loans from Countrywide Financial Corp. with the help of the firm's chief executive, Angelo Mozilo. Countrywide is part of a federal investigation in the midst of the subprime mortgage crisis.

Holder has also come under Republican criticism for his role in helping fugitive financier Marc Rich get a pardon from President Clinton.

Obama said he was not hiring "a vetter to vet the vetters."

"Jim Johnson has a very discrete task, as does Eric Holder, and that is simply to gather up information about potential vice presidential candidates," Obama said. "They are performing that job well. It is a volunteer, unpaid position. ... They're not people who I have assigned to a particular job in a future administration."

___

Whatever happened to "Storming Norman" Swartzkoff?

No question about several things.

One is that there will be people who do not vote for Obama because of his race, but I wonder how many of them would vote for any left of center democrat, hence his net loss may not be that great. Moreover if he can mobilize enough blacks to regoster to vote and get out there and actually vote, he can neutralize the racists. African Americans comprise a large minority in this country, but as a rule they do not turn up and vote. They way out number Jewish people, but the Jewish Vote is critical because they come out at some outrageous rate like 90%.

Two is this post partem depression the Clinton feminists are suffering (not to bemysoginistic) will wane. It is not unusual after a hard fought inter-party primary for the losers to have hurt feelings and claim they will stay home or vote for McCain.
On so called women's issues like right to choose and the formation of the courts which rule on that and on sexual harassment claims, they will come home t the democratic party once they see where McCain stands(BTW I am against abortion, but I do not believe either the government or I have any right to get involved in a moral decision only a pregnant woman can make, thus I am pro choice. I am against the death penalty for one reason. I work in the legal system and I know how screwed up it is. I can almost guarantee if I were to go out and kill someone in cold blood and be convicted, I would end up with a life sentence because I have no prior record, I would have clients, lawyers, shrinks and judges lined up to testify about what a great guy I was, and how I must have just "snapped," etc etc. Some guy who is a "street person" would not get the same deal).

Three. Go to CNN, MSNBC, Time Magazine, Newsweek, and your favrite local daily. Gather all the information you can on what the conventional wisdom is. Once you have done that you can safely assume the conventional wisdom is wrong.

Four. Neither candidate is going to want to get really specific on what he will do once he is president. This is where we really need to press them hard. All we can count on the media doing is spculating about lapel pins, Obama's new fist bumping thing, McCain telling off the cuff jokes, and droning on endlessly about the horse race.

That's EXACTLY the way I feel about it.

He'd be another good one for Sec. of Defence.

May I suggest to JG that he open a temporary Political Forum until the elections are over. It could start getting ugly in here.

He's retired, and from what I understand he hasn't missed one all you can eat buffet
ever since.

Especially when DoubleJ debates the abortion issue by linking Pizzaboy and others with pictures of Adolf Hitler, or when appleonya once a blue moon copy and pastes the latest NEWSMAX talking points memo.

So if we open a tempory political thread, does that mean we can all get "temporarily" ugly?????? Down and dirty?


TIS

That's how it was on another board I was on in 2004. Pretty much there was a disclaimer in the political forum that anything goes there. Just keep it in that forum, and out of the other ones.