Not to pick nits, but it "just" capsized at the dock, rather that actually sink, I think. My question to anyone who knows anything about big ships would be- what about a fire causes a giant steel ship to capsize? i doubt that the fire burned a hole through the hull. Anyone?

The fire was very extensive and intense. It capsized from the weight of the water poured on the fire by numerous fireboats from only one side--the seaward side.

Nitpicker.

It capsized and sunk to the bottom of its berth.

It's my understanding that the ship capsized because of the water that was being pumped onto it to fight the fire. Evidentally one side of the ship got more water causing it to roll.

FWIW - I'm of the belief that Frank Costello and Meyer Lansky were behind this "accidental" fire. I further believe that a year later, pressure was put on (then) Governor Dewey and this "fire" was a face-saving way for Dewey to release Luciano from prison (after Dewey screwed him over some six years earlier).

Does Lucky say anything about it in Last Testament?

Yes. Luciano credits Albert Anastasia with coming up with the idea of doing something that would make the Navy look to the Mob for help.

Luciano goes on further to explain how the wheels were greased by Costello to get him transferred to a "better" prison and then eventually released.

I'd recommend the book to anyone who is interested in any Mob stuff.

The RICO law was actually authored by G. Robert Blakey,a former law student and teacher at Notre Dame and Cornell. One of the first convictions using RICO was Benny "Lefty Guns" Ruggerio, the infamous mobster who allowed Joe Pistone aka "Donnie Brasco" to get close to him and infiltrate the Bonanno Family.

I'm 99% sure that it was Blakey who was giving a lecture/seminar for those in the law enforcement field. Somewhere in the middle of the lecture, pagers started going off and Blakey was left standing in an empty room. The reason? Paul Castellano, the head of the Gambino Family, was just assassinated by the men of John Gotti's crew at the time of the lecture.

In Selwyn Raab's excellent book, "The Five Families," he notes that RICO went nowhere for about a decade because Federal prosecutors didn't know how to use it. Then Rudy Giuliana, when he was US Attorney for the Southern District of NY (and a big "Godfather" fan) had a brainstorm: did Joe Bonanno's autobio, "A Man of Honor" [sic] establish the Commission as a Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization? He invited Blakey to lecture his staff on how to use RICO. He called Blakey "my consigliere." Result: the Commission case. After Giuliani's success, Federal prosecutors around the country fell all over themselves indicting Mafiosi.

Wow. This thread is like a mob handbook. Great stuff.

Steva, pretty good material to draw from for your comic, huh? Just sayin'...

That was an enlightening realistic portrayal of a life that is often glorified in movies and tv, Mr. Turnbull. Really, I should just pass this along to every wannabe rapper I know who is always trying to "name drop" anyone related to that Mafia lifestyle and give them a much needed reality check.
Anyways I have a question if anyone can steer me in the right direction. I am looking for information regarding Luciano's helping of the U.S. Government during World War II. I'm studying Criminal Justice and I'm trying to get a head start on an essay that I know that will be due before the summer semester is over with. Thanks for your time.

Above TB has cited a couple of books each of which as I remember do discuss Luciano and the feds. At your library, just check out the section containing Mafia books and I am sure many of them have the info you want. Of course, the web has plenty of info on it.

MSC, you can find references to Luciano's help in two areas--labor peace on NYC waterfront, and in the Allied invasion of Sicily--in many Mob books. I suggest you take the references from two excellent Mob books (vs. so many others that are mediocre). Try Selwyn Raab's "The Five Families," and Robert Lacey's "Little Man - Meyer Lansky and the Gangster Life." Lansky, Luciano's closest adviser, was the intermediary between Luciano, the government and the Mob while Luciano was in prison.

The book below has alot about Lucky helps in WW2..

IM new this peshado... so forgve me if im off Kilter or some a lil whakadoo... oK . So give me an estimate how many know what the Fk they talkin about or if they know./know anyone if the Americana Mafia

i see this is an old ass post, but what the heck..Ya being interested is one thing and OK to But Mahrone to think is all that is silly... TRUST ME! u get my drift..hope so

Myth: The FBI for decades ignored the Mafia for two reasons: First, J. Edgar Hoover was a degenerate gambler who got tips on fixed horse races from senior Mafia people. Second, Hoover was gay, and the Mob had a photo of him in full drag that they used to coerce him.

Reality: Neither is true. Hoover was an avid horseplayer who regularly visited racetracks and had himself photographed there. But he was strictly a two-dollar bettor. He did get tips on fixed races from agents who wanted to suck up to the boss. He knew that the agents got the tips from underworld informants. Probably some of them were Mobbed-up, but there was (and is) nothing irregular or unusual about law enforcement using (and paying) informants for information—even info on fixed races.

Hoover was a mama’s boy and lifelong bachelor. He shared a home and vacationed with Clyde Tolson, assistant FBI director, whose only qualification seemed to have been his friendship with Hoover. Several competent biographers have investigated Hoover’s alleged homosexuality since his death in 1972, and have been unable to confirm it. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t gay—it means there’s no proof that he was.

As a man who owed his 50-plus years’ tenure as FBI director to his ability to collect juicy data on other powerful men’s vices, Hoover knew better than anyone that his own personal life could be prime territory for blackmailers and political opponents. Probably the reason he had himself photographed at racetracks and on vacation with Tolson was to make those peccadilloes just public enough to pre-empt potential foes. The last things Hoover would have done would be to meet Frank Costello on park benches to get horse tips, or to attend gay orgies in drag.

So, why did Hoover ignore the Mafia for so long? His personal popularity and his secret files on politicians enabled Hoover to run the FBI as a personal fiefdom. He was obsessed with the Communist Party USA, and directed a huge share of FBI resources to “the enemy within” (a contemporary joke was that the only thing keeping CPUSA afloat was the dues paid by undercover FBI agents and informants). He also favored high profile, short-turnaround investigations such as bank robbery and kidnappings. He gave Mob-controlled gambling and narcotics a wide berth because he knew that the profits they generated enabled organized crime to corrupt law enforcement almost at will.

So, he preferred to consider gambling and drugs as “local issues.” When the Kefauver subcommittee’s televised hearings on gambling and organized crime (1950-51) raised questions about why the FBI wasn’t stopping them, Hoover replied: “If the laws against gambling presently on the state and local statute books were earnestly and vigorously enforce, organized gambling could be eliminated within 48 hours in any community in this land….The basic answer, is an aroused public opinion which will act on a local level through local enforcement to wipe out the problem” [emphasis in original].

I'm new here and would just like to say that this is a very good compilation of facts and things about the mafia that i have been infatuated with since I played the illusion softworks game in the 2nd grade.

I agree with pretty much you people have to say and the only thing we really differ on is that I have a slightly different view on living that life and getting made. The way I see it, there are perks and some upside to being a wiseguy such as the money,cars,women,power,and respect but I also know that the upside is seriously weighed down by a huge downside such as the inevitablitity of death or imprisonment. Personally I feel tht being a gangster isn't all bad, if it were, there wouldn't be any of them to talk about like this. It has an upside that I mentioned and it isn't hard to imagine how people get drawn down that path. My opinion is that although the mafia has its perks, but the aforementioned death and imprisonment and the vicious cycle of violence and betrayal that turn it into the thing that people make it out to be although a small percentage of mafioso can be loyal and be behind you and help you but not many, see Sammy the Bull's guys, Stymie D'Angelo and Joe Paruta for example.

The bottom line for me is:

It ain't all bad.............but most of it is.


this is just the way i see it so please don't bash me relentlessly

Welcome, Jersey Guy, hope to see many thoughtful posts from you! I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think your assessment of pros and cons is a product of an earlier era in the Mafia:

Italians probably were the most discriminated-against white immigrants to America. Coupled with the insularity and distrust of government institutions (including schools) that they brought with them from Southern Italy and Sicily, Italian Americans resisted assimilation for a couple of generations. For some, the Mafia became the "employer of last resort," like the phone company was for WASPS in middle sized cities. In those days, Mafia life was more straightforward and predictable. A Mafia soldier had a reasonably good understanding of the risks and rewards of Mafia life. If he was loyal and honored omerta, he'd be taken care of. Typical was Joe Valachi--a small-time common soldier. He made more than $100k/year during WWII selling stolen and counterfeit rationing stamps. But when he dabbled in drugs and was caught, he went away. He broke omerta because he thought his boss, Vito Genovese, a fellow prisoner in the Atlanta Penitentiary, betrayed him.

Another factor: Nearly all Mafiosi were common street thugs. All the finger-pricking and vows were embellishments on straighforward criminality. But a few--Tony Accardo, Charlie Luciano, Carlo Gambino, Frank Costello and a handful of others--were superior, and could have been successful in business, the professions and the arts if they'd had the chance. Today Italian Americans have completely assimilated: college, not the streets, is where you'll find the young, ambitions men. Corporate boardrooms, not the Mob, is where you find the successful people. The Mafia gets the John and Junior Gotti's, and the Gaspipe Casso's of the world.

Mob life used to be "cosa nostra." Today, there's no shred of loyalty or (excuse the expression) "honor." It's cosa mia.

You're completely right and I agree that the mafia definitely isn't what it used to be. Back then, there was some semblance of loyalty, respect, and even some honor. you couldn't say they were saints but you could say that some of those guys were actually half-way decent people, not the best but you know what i mean, but in the newer era, it was all thrown out of the window. nowpeople are only doing it for themselves and half of them probably don't know what the code of omerta even is and would break the oath just to save their asses from the smallest amount of jailtime. looking for honor and respect in today's mafia is like looking for a straight guy at a Miley Cyrus concert.

I have a question and I am hoping someone here can answer it. When I read the book underboss by Peter Maas that the killing of Phil Testa was by a method forbidden by Mafia rules, the assassins used a bomb. Sammy Gravano also states that the bomb under Frank DeCicco's car wasn't taken seriously because that the Mob in America doesn't allow it. However, I am always seeing reports about American Mafiosos using explosives to kill their target such as in the case of Danny Greene who was an Irish gangster in Cleveland who very much upset his Italian partners.

What i want to know is if the mafia approves of using bombs as a method of assassination or if there are rules against their use.

I don't know if it's an "approved" method but I do think today the mob shys away from the technique for a couple of reasons. First, it is a very high profile way of getting rid of someone that attracts a lot of attention; media, law, public outcry, etc... Secondly, the Feds now have some pretty hi tech equipment to identify the origins and finger prints from explosion aftermath evidence. If I am not mistaken, some of the Chicago Mob were identified as assailants in several bombings in the 70's and 80's last year in the big Family Secrets trial. Decades old evidence from bombs was used to help convict some big fish in the Chicago Outfit...I could be wrong but the bottom line is that I think explosives attract too much attention.

JerseyGuy, the thing to keep in mind is that there is no honor among thieves. A "rule" exists as long as someone is willing to follow it. Let one desperado violate it and it is history.
John Gotti violated a Commission "rule" by whacking Paul Castellano without the Commission's approval. No one said boo to him. That one had been violated before: Albert Anastasia whacked his boss, Vincent Mangano, then showed up at the next Commission meeting as the new Don--nobody said boo to him. Then Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, a guy who believed in "the rules," decided he didn't agree with the Commission's indifference: He was going to make Gotti pay for his transgression. So, he arranged for Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso to kill Gotti. The two of them agreed that the best way to kill Gotti was to use a bomb--bombing murders are associated with the Sicilian Mafia, so they figured no one would suspect them. (The bomb missed Gotti and killed his consigliere, Frankie DiCicco, instead. Later Gotti and Chin kissed and made up. Some f*****g rules.)

As for Gaspipe: he violated another "rule": he shot up the family of Peter (Fat Pete) Chiodo, whom he'd marked for death, and who turned rat. So much for the "rules."

Repeat: there is no honor among thieves.

Hey, I just wanted to say that the idea of money, woman, fast cars, and power has always intrigued me. (but I have a lot to learn) Thanks for telling me whatsup. Who Knows? If I didn't hear you say that its not what its cracked up to be, I might have attempted to join. HAHA!

Seriously, I appreciate it. I like hearing the truth. There is nothing like being real!

... also I'm new here, so I hope to get know you guys well and make some new friends!

Gotti wasn't your normal mobster. Most would have been more secretive about their operations. (Of course, I still have a lot to learn.)

You are not alone, Tru-Bizelli. I always used to day dream about the Mob and maybe joining it some day, of course that would be the earlier Mafia like in the 40's or 50's because back then, the honor,respect, and all of the qualities of an "honored society" were there in some respects and back then mafiosos, at least some of them, could be half way decent people and stand up guys, I'm not saying they were saints but not all of them were slimy,no good, swindlers, heartless killers, and genuine scumbags. In the more modern days, that isn't there anymore. 95% or more of mobsters are the aforementioned scumbags, killers, etc.

The glory days of the mafia are no more. There's no more, shall I say, "Team" aspect to it. Everybody only cares about themselves and about saving their own asses. I would never dream of getting into that life today but back then, I would be a bit less confrontational towards that path.

Do I make any sense to the people here when I say that?


Edit:

"I truly feel sorry for the younger generation that wants to belong to that life. It's sad for them. There is absolutely no honor and respect today. Little do the newcomers know that there are many made members in the Mafia that wish not to be there and would like nothing better than to walk away from it. So they do the next best thing: stay low key if possible. The young newcomers will never see the kind of big money that was once made. That's long gone. They don't realize what it means to be free and have peace of mind until its taken from them."

This is a qoute from gaspipe casso and it sums up my opinion on the mob pretty well, for a murderous scumbag and a terrible person, he has a way with words LOL. the funny thing is that he talks about being an honorable mafioso whe he ordered the murder of a guy's family

well, I found myself living the life similar to Ray Liota's character in Goodfellas at one time. It was an experience, but I'm so happy I'm out of it. It was something about the rush of drugs and women. I relate to so many mafia movies, its a shame! But, for real (its not that). It's "not real". Its F#cked up and the people in your life is F#cked up!
BLESSINGS!

Hey JerseyGuy, if the mob is so pathetic now, then why do people still wanna read and learn the new stuff?

Because it is a shadow of what it used to be. I still find the mob of today fascinating but I don't think you can even call it Cosa Nostra anymore. The Mafia hs decellerated and degraded itself to be almost like a common street gang because they have completely disregarded the principles of the ,shall I say, "glory days".

I watched "Bugsy" over the weekend, a film that I really enjoy for the West Coast scenery and some terrific acting, even if it is highly fictionalized. Anyway, this post almost ended up in the movies thread until I figured it might fit better right here.

Myth: Ben Siegel "invented" the city of Las Vegas.

Reality:

1) Prior to Siegel's Flamingo, the strip already had two casinos: The Last Frontier and El Rancho Vegas.

2) The Flamingo was already being constructed when Siegel muscled his way in, in typical Mob/bully fashion.

3) The Mob was already active in Vegas for at least a few years prior to Siegel's presence, through ownership of several downtown gambling joints and the telegraph service that bookies used to keep track of horse races from coast to coast.

But give Siegel credit for this: If he didn't "invent" Las Vegas, he transformed it, insofar as Vegas meaning glitter, glamour, over-the-top tackiness and escape. It's also a nice balance of myth and reality that a single visionary with a taste for the good life recognized a sleepy western watering hole as the prime spot for an American Monte Carlo in the desert.