A part from GF2 that i never understood was when Pantangelli was "strangled" with the guy saying greetings from Michael Corleone.

I'm assuming Roth set this up in order for Frankie to feel betrayed by Michael.

Does Frankie ever realize this? - does seeing his brother with Michael at the trial make him realize this? - Even when Tom talks with him after the trial the subject isn't mentioned as far as i can tell

Thanks - one part that always confused me

stracci, this is one of the most debated issues on the boards. I'm afraid we'll never get the real answer.

I had seen a tv interview with actor Danny Aiello (the one doing the strangling) and he claimed he ad-libbed that line ("Michael Corleone says hello") and evidentally FFC liked it so much he kept it in the movie (without regard to confusing the audience about the meaning of those words).

The man who garroted Frankie was one of the Rosato brothers. My understanding is the reason for the "Michael Corleone says hello" statement was so that Frank would believe that Michael had ordered a hit on him. And yes, Frankie does realize this. It was the reason he was going to testify aganist Michael.

What always confused me about Part II was why Frankie changed his story when his brother showed up. I could never figure out if his brother's presence alone intimitated him or he didn't want to be seen as a rat.

So you believe that the strangling was only to scare Pentangeli and not kill him? You believe that the cop who walked in (ending the strangling) was a part of the plan???

Both scenes have been discussed extensively. But I agree with SC that Rosato's intention was to kill Frankie, not scare him as evidenced by the cop's interruption. The line could have been ablibbed. We just don't know.

As far as Frankie's brother at the hearing goes, it was a warning to Frankie: testify and your brother is going down.

This is just about the most extensively discussed question on this board (other than "who killed tha Tahoe shooters?").

Roth and the Rosatos intended for Frankie to be dead. The cop breaking up the attempted murder was pure happenstance. There is no way--repeat, no way--Roth could have arranged the cop's entry with split-second precision to break up the murder in order to get Frankie to turn against Michael.

Some people here believe that Michael brought Frankie's brother Vincenzo to the hearing to shame Frankie: he couldn't break omerta after seeing his old-school brother watching him incredulously. Others believe that it was an implicit threat: if Frankie went ahead with his testimony, his brother (and, perhaps other family Frankie had in Sicily) would be harmed. It's possible that both viewpoints are correct.

The "Michael Corleone says hello" had to be an artistic whim of Coppola's. Danny Aiello admits it was an ad lib, so to leave those words in the film was a director's decision. For what purpose? Consider that a film is an artist's interpretation. There are many things that create dramatic effect and imagery; music, lighting, sound effects, make-up AND dialog. Those four words add a little punch to the scene and it can raise viewer curiousity. We tend to forget how a scene can affect us when viewed ONCE. Most of us here have viewed the scene hundreds of times. The initial impact has been covered over and distorted by years of analysis.

I join everyone else in this mystery. Certainly the intent was to kill Frankie, so it wouldn't make any difference to Frankie if Michael Corleone or Hyman Roth killed him. It could make sense if the Rosato Brothers reported that Michael had betrayed Frankie and blamed him for the hit in Tahoe, thus giving them a leg up on chiseling his territory, and perhaps turning Cicci.

I never believed that the line was ad-libbed.

A new actor with a non-speaking role in the most anticipated film of the decade would never ruin a scene by blurting out an ad-lib, especially one that contradicts a major plot point (who gave the order to kill Frankie).

I think the most plausible explanation is that there was an earlier version of the script in which this line made more sense.

Well stracci... I guess the bottom line is we don't know, BUT I believe that it was an ad lib (although TLW makes a good point against this) and we will never know... has any one listened to the commentary in part II to see if Coppola had anything to say about it during this scene??? I have only watched II with the commentary once and don't remember.

So you're saying it had been written that Aiello would say that and the most anticipated film of the decade was badly produced because of editing/writing/continuity issues?

Your point is well-taken, SC.

But a last-minute script change seems more plausible to me than it being an ad lib, especially in light of the alternate shooting scripts that have surfaced and other (minor) continuity issues that have been spotted (such as Questadt sitting behind Roth in Havana).

As for the purpose of Vincenzo's presence in the courtroom, I believed for many years that it was a threat to Frankie - we kill your brother if you testify. Michael's "It was between the brothers," was just one more lie he told to Kay.

However, after watching and listening more carefully, I no longer think so. I believe that he was there to remind Frankie that they took an oath, and that he would disgrace their family if he broke it. To me, that is supported by Tom Hagen, after Frankie changes his testimony, telling Vincenzo (in Sicilian) that the honor of the family was intact. This makes Michael's statement to Kay sincere after all.

Of course, if the brother's presence could remind Frankie of his oath, fine. But do you really believe that Michael was going to rely simply on that to constrain Frankie's testimony (Michael: Golly gee. I thought that oath thing would do the trick. Now I'm going to prison. Shucks)? No. It was clear: testify and your brother dies. Remember: this is the Mafia we are discussing.

True! And remember that Pentangeli's brother was NOT a "civilian" either. He would have been fair game and that logic wasn't wasted on Frankie Five Angels.

I've always believed that the line, "Michael Corleone says hello," was aimed at Richie, the bartender, not Frankie. Richie was a civilian and he was nervous as hell ("Carmine, NO!, not here," he shouts as Carmine Rosato is about to kill the cop in Richie's place}. The cops would find Frankie dead in his place, so Richie might be under pressure to tell all. So the Rosatos fed him a line. That way, he could tell the cops, "I dunno who those guys were. But on of 'em said, 'Michael Corleone says hello' as they were stranglin' him." That'd be a perfect pointer to Michael had Frankie died as intended. And you can bet it'd get in the newspapers--another way to attack Michael's "legitimate" front.



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In the book, Fabrizzio's shooter tells him, "Michael Corleone sends his regards." It's always seemed likely to me that that is the source for the line actually spoken by Aiello.

Much of that scene was based on real-life events involving the strangling of Larry Gallo (Crazy Joe Gallo's brother).

As with most mob folklore tales there is some uncertainty about the exact details of Gallo's strangling. Harvey Aronson in his book, "The Killing of Joey Gallo", describes Larry Gallo as standing at the rail of the bar talking to the bartender when he saw a flash of a reflection in the mirror. That "flash" was the rope being thrown around his neck (from behind). In "Joey" by Donald Goddard it is described that Larry Gallo went into the bar with John Scimone and they were followed in by Carmine Persico and "Sally" D'Ambrosio who then pulled their guns on Gallo and told him that they were responsible for Joe Jelly's killing. They started strangling Gallo (in the hope that he'd call his brothers for help, luring them into the trap) but Larry passed out first.

To further point out a few things about art imitating life -

- Larry Gallo was given a "C" note (just like Pentangeli was) before the strangling.

- Joe "Jelly" Gioelli's shirt was found in the street wrapped around a fish (the basis for Luca Brasi's bulletproof vest) two days before this strangling attempt on Gallo.

- The bartender of The Sahara Lounge (where this took place) was named Clemenza.

I never thought about Turnbull's point that this line was said for Ritchie the bartender, in case he ever had to give someone up. I always just figured they said it so Frankie would die thinking Michael turned on him.

His theory doesn't hold water. The bartender wouldn't have cooperated with the cops (and give testimony against Michael Corleone).

The line was delivered (IMO) because of a similar line made against Larry Gallo (and it was somewhat common knowledge) and FFC heard Aiello ad-lib the line in rehearsal and agreed to keep it in the movie because it sounded authentic.

I agree SC. There was no way that Ritchie was going to testify, period.

Why not? He would have been given immunity, and all he heard was some guy saying "Michael Corleone says hello." That would not be enough to implicate Michael in a court of law, because its hearsay.

Immunity from what? Death?

Prosecution. But the bottom line is if he gave the testimony that someone said "Michael Corleone says hello" before he killed Pentangeli, it gets law enforcement no where. It is not enough to incriminate Corleone. So they wouldn't need the testimony in any case.

Because Pentangeli lived and ratted Michael out, they needed the bartender even less.

The main thing the bartender had to lose was his liquor license.

Recall. What was it that one of the Rosato's yelled at Ritchie while exiting the bar: Open your mouth and you're dead. So what are we to expect now from Ritchie? He's going to implicate the most powerful Mafia Don in the country and that Don is just going to say "oh well. That's life?"

That threat has to do with Ritchie's relationship with the Rosatos. Not anything about Corleone. Hell, they wanted Corleone dead. They were probably in on the attampted hit with Roth.

The bartender knew the mob well enough to know that if he cooperated with the police in any manner he was a dead man. He was smart. He didn't object to a mob killing - he objected to a mob killing in HIS PLACE.

He would not have helped the police in any manner. His answer would have been, "I was in the back washing some glasses" or somethinhg like that.

I tend to agree. If it was today, maybe not. But in 1959, at the height of the Mob's power and "mystique," no way he'd rat. Don't forget, this is before the Witness Protecion Program was formed. Where was he gonna go?

Riche wasn't a made guy. If the cops found a stiff in his bar, he'd be squeezed. Because they knew he was a civilian, they'd offer him immunity from prosecution. That's why "Michael Corleone says hello" was tailor-made for Richie: He could "cooperate" with the police by claiming he didn't know the guys--only that one of them said, "Michael Corleone says hello." Meanwhile, the phrase would implicate Michael. By itself, it wouldn't be enough to form the basis of prosecuting Michael for murder--but it'd go a long way to besmirch his "legit" front when it hit the newspapers. The Rosatos would give Richie a pass as long as he didn't identify them by name. It's just the sort of complex scheme Roth would have thought of.