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Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Sicilian Babe] #508111
09/04/08 11:37 PM
09/04/08 11:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Just to clarify, are you commenting on the content or on the delivery???


Content.

I know he's not as dynamic a speaker as Obama... that wouldn't be a reason to vote for him or against him, though.

He lit up when he spoke about Vietnam; that was personal, and I guess easy for him to talk about. He KNOWS that stuff. He didn't speak about any of the party's plans. Is he telling us that the party doesn't have any plans?


.
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: SC] #508112
09/04/08 11:43 PM
09/04/08 11:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
I haven't heard any fresh ideas from any of the Republicans in years. We keep hearing what a maverick Senator McCain is, but if he's voted with President Bush 90% of the time, then I guess he's really not.

As I know I've mentioned before, the Republicans seem to preach fear. Don't change! It would be bad! We were here on September 11, 2001, and we've prevented attacks since then. If you don't vote for us, those terrorists will be back!! Fear, fear, fear.

Personally, I don't want to live in fear. I prefer to live a hopeful life. And for me, that's a good enough reason not to vote Republican this time.

Where's Ross Perot when you need a third party candidate?? lol


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Sicilian Babe] #508114
09/05/08 12:03 AM
09/05/08 12:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
Two things about the speech. My son commented that he seems to be holding something back. Not just tonight, but whenever he speaks. He seems to be exercising immense control when he does so. And also, he seems to invest much in macho toughness, never giving up, victory, making history (where did that come from?) as if being tough is the end all and be all.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Saladbar] #508129
09/05/08 04:33 AM
09/05/08 04:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Saladbar
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I also didn't like the term "community organizer" to describe what Obama did. How about the fact that, despite graduating at the top of his class from Harvard, he decided to give back to the community instead of joining a powerful Chicago law firm for a huge salary. They don't mention that. Instead, they mock that commitment to public service, unless it's their own.



I'm with you. When Rudy then Palin attacked his service to his community and the crowd roared I about threw up. How messed up is the GOP that they would seriously denigrate the work of someone who sacrificed a comfy job in a high paying law firm to help the underprivileged?



Community Service is a wonderful thing and Sen. Barack Hussein Obama should be applauded for it. Does it qualify anyone to be President of the United States. Nope.

Also, after nearly a week of scrutiny over Palins 'experience' while running for VP and who if she wins may or may not ever even assume the Presidency...it was and is completely appropriate to compare her experience as Mayor and Governor to Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's, who if he wins WILL be President...as a Community Organizer and U.S. Senator who is on record as voting 'Present' most of the time and passed barely a single piece of legislation during his time in office but has somehow found time to write 2 memiors.

The comparison was fair, it was warranted and it should be made time and time again if the media continues to harp on Gov. Sarah Palin's qualifications for the office of Vice President.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #508130
09/05/08 04:42 AM
09/05/08 04:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
...As for your hypothesis....wasn't the bomb that was Dukakis a Governor too? ...


Yes, he was. And I'm not saying that ALL Governors who seek the Presidency succeed. However it's a historical FACT...not a hypothesis...that more sitting or former Governors have been elected President than sitting Senators.

This year, a Senator will definitely be elected President.
It was a great move for McCain to put on his ticket a sitting Governor, a current Chief Executive of a HUGE State...instead of going for another Senator.

Apple

ps - Yet another Governor to be elected President in 'recent' history...Franklin Delano Roosevelt.


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: AppleOnYa] #508136
09/05/08 06:10 AM
09/05/08 06:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,528
In a van down by the river!
Longneck Offline
Longneck  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,528
In a van down by the river!
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa

a current Chief Executive of a HUGE State...


lol Yeah, in land mass. Not so much population. They have what - 1 person per square mile?




Long as I remember The rain been coming down.
Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Longneck] #508138
09/05/08 06:40 AM
09/05/08 06:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Apple, I have no problem with the fact that they compared their records and their experience. Compare away. As you said, it's only reasonable.

What bothered me is the disparaging and dismissive tone that both Mayor Giuliani and Governor Palin used when saying "community organizer". They left the impression that a "community organizer" is somebody who puts together pickup games on some public basketball court. It was not the comparison; it was the tone.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Sicilian Babe] #508139
09/05/08 07:32 AM
09/05/08 07:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,528
In a van down by the river!
Longneck Offline
Longneck  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,528
In a van down by the river!
The attacks on Obama have only made me roll my eyes and move me closer to voting for Barack Hussein Obama.




Long as I remember The rain been coming down.
Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Longneck] #508140
09/05/08 07:45 AM
09/05/08 07:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
Just Lou  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
I would love to be able to vote for McCain, but just can't. He keeps talking about being a "Maverick", and shaking up Washington, but his record just doesn't support that. He votes along party lines and with George Bush 90% of the time. Plus his pick of Sarah Palin isn't putting "Country First". Does anyone in their right mind think she is best choice to be his VP? He picked her for one reason, to try to win an election. Obama is far from perfect, but he's about as opposite of George Bush you can get, and I'm willing to take the chance on "Change".

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Just Lou] #508141
09/05/08 07:55 AM
09/05/08 07:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
The truth is, I might have voted for Senator McCain 8 years ago. I really wish he had gotten the nomination back then. I wonder how the world would be different if he had.

As I said, I think that he's probably a decent man. He came across as quite sincere last night. However, I didn't hear anything new. I didn't hear any ideas. I didn't even hear acknowledgment that we're suffering an enormous fiscal crisis. To me, 8 more years of the same is just unacceptable.

Yes, Senator Obama may be in his first term. Yes, he may be weak on foreign policy. However, at least he understands that there are problems in this country. At least he knows that what's been going on isn't working.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Sicilian Babe] #508146
09/05/08 08:39 AM
09/05/08 08:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Mignon Offline
Mama Mig
Mignon  Offline
Mama Mig

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
I'm not thrilled with either of them. I'm concerned about Mccain's age. I'm not happy that Obama will raise taxes. My vote will come down to the lesser of two evils AGAIN!!!


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12


Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Sicilian Babe] #508147
09/05/08 08:47 AM
09/05/08 08:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
D
Double-J Offline
Double-J  Offline
D

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe

Personally, I don't want to live in fear. I prefer to live a hopeful life.


Terrorists? Trying to kill us?

What, me worry?



Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Mignon] #508149
09/05/08 08:56 AM
09/05/08 08:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Mignon
I'm not thrilled with either of them. I'm concerned about Mccain's age. I'm not happy that Obama will raise taxes. My vote will come down to the lesser of two evils AGAIN!!!


With the deficits we're running and the need to improve infrastructure, develop energy independence and put a decent health care system in place, not to mention all kinds of existing and potential problems abroad, I don't see how we cannot raise taxes unless we do it GOP style by calling taxes by some other name and using gimmicks like selling highways to private companies, continuing to privatize prisons, and raising "fees" for everything.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Mignon] #508158
09/05/08 09:45 AM
09/05/08 09:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Mignon
OMG is nobody allowed to say anything against Senator Obama around here?

The thing about Michelle that ticked me off is this "For the First Time in My Adult Lifetime, I'm Really Proud of My Country"

Why was she never proud of her country before?


Yeah, that was a fucking blunder. I think I understand what she was trying to say, as in "I've always been proud before, but today I'm specially proud" or whatever.

But my immediate reaction to that statement was the same as yours.

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: dontomasso] #508159
09/05/08 09:48 AM
09/05/08 09:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: Mignon
I'm not thrilled with either of them. I'm concerned about Mccain's age. I'm not happy that Obama will raise taxes. My vote will come down to the lesser of two evils AGAIN!!!


With the deficits we're running and the need to improve infrastructure, develop energy independence and put a decent health care system in place, not to mention all kinds of existing and potential problems abroad, I don't see how we cannot raise taxes unless we do it GOP style by calling taxes by some other name and using gimmicks like selling highways to private companies, continuing to privatize prisons, and raising "fees" for everything.


Both candidates' tax plans really are problematic, but McCain's is "slash spending" and yet he won't cut any bit of the military budget.

So if not that route, then where to? I mean I'm pretty sure neither candidate will cut cash-bleeding projects like the Harriet Jet.

So what will get axed if its President McCain and a Democratic Congress, if anything?

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Mignon] #508160
09/05/08 09:51 AM
09/05/08 09:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Mignon
I'm not thrilled with either of them. I'm concerned about Mccain's age. I'm not happy that Obama will raise taxes. My vote will come down to the lesser of two evils AGAIN!!!


Remember that deficit in the late 80s/early 90s that was one of the key reasons why Bush Sr. lost re-election to Clinton?

Well, that came from Reagan's Supply-Side Economics, in cutting taxes and not cutting anything, and in fact increasing the military budget. The problem was that the heavy cost from the economic prosperity in the 80s landed on Bush's doorstep, and Clinton/GOP Congress had to cut alot of shit to be not as much in the red.

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: AppleOnYa] #508162
09/05/08 10:00 AM
09/05/08 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
Originally Posted By: Saladbar
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I also didn't like the term "community organizer" to describe what Obama did. How about the fact that, despite graduating at the top of his class from Harvard, he decided to give back to the community instead of joining a powerful Chicago law firm for a huge salary. They don't mention that. Instead, they mock that commitment to public service, unless it's their own.



I'm with you. When Rudy then Palin attacked his service to his community and the crowd roared I about threw up. How messed up is the GOP that they would seriously denigrate the work of someone who sacrificed a comfy job in a high paying law firm to help the underprivileged?



Community Service is a wonderful thing and Sen. Barack Hussein Obama should be applauded for it. Does it qualify anyone to be President of the United States. Nope.

Also, after nearly a week of scrutiny over Palins 'experience' while running for VP and who if she wins may or may not ever even assume the Presidency...it was and is completely appropriate to compare her experience as Mayor and Governor to Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's, who if he wins WILL be President...as a Community Organizer and U.S. Senator who is on record as voting 'Present' most of the time and passed barely a single piece of legislation during his time in office but has somehow found time to write 2 memiors.

The comparison was fair, it was warranted and it should be made time and time again if the media continues to harp on Gov. Sarah Palin's qualifications for the office of Vice President.

Apple


Yet I doubt any Democrat or moderate was going to vote for Obama for his experience. More like for his pitch of no more S.O.S. ("Same Old Shit") or at least represent a change from the Dubya years, or new ideas or whatever.

I mean McCain's pitch is that he's been around long enough, he knows the game and how to play it BLAH BLAH, and it's worth running on.

There was a political cartoon, and I hate that I didn't save it, but which you had two cars: those new hybrid environmental/fuel-friendly cars (Obama) and a SUV (McCain), and you have people in the middle wondering which car to "buy."

On the hybrid, "Looks promising, but it's a risky move."
On the SUV, its "It's proven in the past, but is this the solution now?"

Point is, experience was a cornerstone of McCain's run, and with his age, if he had picked someone like Hutchinson, I think moderates would have been more acceptive of that pick than a Palin. I mean Hutchinson has been in office for about what, 14-15 years as a Senator from Texas?

McCain/Hutchinson ticket would have been the complete "Experience" Value Meal.

Oh sure Democrats would find little shit to get pissed about her, but when polling indicates with Palin that with Republicans loving her, and Democrats hating her, but moderates in general are not biting...that's a problem.

To put it another way Apple, remember 4 years ago?

Edwards energized the Democratic base, but who won the race?

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: AppleOnYa] #508164
09/05/08 10:07 AM
09/05/08 10:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa
Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
...As for your hypothesis....wasn't the bomb that was Dukakis a Governor too? ...


Yes, he was. And I'm not saying that ALL Governors who seek the Presidency succeed. However it's a historical FACT...not a hypothesis...that more sitting or former Governors have been elected President than sitting Senators.

This year, a Senator will definitely be elected President.
It was a great move for McCain to put on his ticket a sitting Governor, a current Chief Executive of a HUGE State...instead of going for another Senator.

Apple

ps - Yet another Governor to be elected President in 'recent' history...Franklin Delano Roosevelt.


A question I ask you Apple, and I want you to answer completely and honestly:

Which candidate you prefer, McCain or Palin?

Also, you supporting McCain who was a leader of that failed attempt on that so-trashed "Amnesty Bill" 2 years ago, who led and got a bill passed condemning the Bush Administration for not following the Geneva Convention on torture, the McCain/Feingold Campaign Finance "Reform" that's not really worked as good as hoped, and against banning gay marriage?

I'm just trying to understand that a conservative like yourself is voting for a moderate who at times has gone contrary to your ideological parameters.

The best question of all...are you voting more for McCain, or more against Obama?

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: dontomasso] #508170
09/05/08 10:24 AM
09/05/08 10:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
Just Lou  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
McCain Gets his bounce. Just released Rasmussen Poll.

Rasmussen: Obama 48, McCain 46. Obama +2 (4 point change)


Gallup daily tracking poll will be out later.

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Just Lou] #508172
09/05/08 11:07 AM
09/05/08 11:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
Just Lou  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
If you missed the 1st part of the Obama/O'Reilly interview, here
it is. It was actually a pretty good interview.


http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/index.html

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Just Lou] #508175
09/05/08 11:27 AM
09/05/08 11:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
Alaska's population is about 700,000. That's 1.1 people per square mile. It's gross state product is about $500 million.

The only thing big about the state is its physical size.

In the end, the election will come down to the state of the economy.

Last edited by olivant; 09/05/08 11:30 AM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: olivant] #508177
09/05/08 11:35 AM
09/05/08 11:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg Offline
Underboss
svsg  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
Sarah Palin is hot. Vote for McCain.

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Mignon] #508178
09/05/08 11:38 AM
09/05/08 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
Saladbar Offline
Underboss
Saladbar  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
Originally Posted By: Mignon
I'm not thrilled with either of them. I'm concerned about Mccain's age. I'm not happy that Obama will raise taxes. My vote will come down to the lesser of two evils AGAIN!!!


"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Saladbar] #508179
09/05/08 11:44 AM
09/05/08 11:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg Offline
Underboss
svsg  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
Are you assuming that Mignon doesn't make more than $2.87 million a year? wink

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: svsg] #508180
09/05/08 12:11 PM
09/05/08 12:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536
West Chester, PA
Patrick Offline
Patrick  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536
West Chester, PA
8 more weeks. Nice chart, SB. I'm sick of people saying Obama is going to tax, tax, tax. He has said over and over again. If your family is making less than $250,000 a year, you will not see a tax increase.


"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: svsg] #508181
09/05/08 12:12 PM
09/05/08 12:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
Originally Posted By: svsg
Are you assuming that Mignon doesn't make more than $2.87 million a year?


Doubt it. In a good year, when the colonel goes hunting, he may bring home two bucks.


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Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: SC] #508182
09/05/08 12:14 PM
09/05/08 12:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
svsg Offline
Underboss
svsg  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,098
Existential Well
lol

Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: svsg] #508184
09/05/08 12:25 PM
09/05/08 12:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
Presidents do not raise or lower taxes. Only the Congress can do so.

I think that with focus upon the preseidential candidates, some forget that all 435 members of the House of Representatives will be up for reelection and 1/3 of Senators. If you are concerned about effects upon taxes, one needs to pay attention to those runnning for election in your district and for senator in your state.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: svsg] #508185
09/05/08 12:31 PM
09/05/08 12:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
The truth is, incomes vary regionally. Someone making $100,000 per year in the tristate area or in areas of CA is very likely to be struggling to make ends meet. Someone in that same income bracket in an area of the country where real estate costs and taxes are lower may be living quite well. Applying federal taxes without using some formula for regional costs, someone's going to get screwed.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008 [Re: Just Lou] #508191
09/05/08 02:16 PM
09/05/08 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
Just Lou  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Just Lou
McCain Gets his bounce. Just released Rasmussen Poll.

Rasmussen: Obama 48, McCain 46. Obama +2 (4 point change)

Gallup daily tracking poll will be out later.


Gallup poll is out. McCain got a 4 point bounce in that one too.

Gallup Tracking: Obama 48, McCain 44. Obama +4 (4 point change)

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