A recent thread made me think again about timeline discrepancies in the Trilogy:

Given the nine-hours-plus length and 80-plus years’ span of the three movies, it’s not surprising that errors crept in. Some are trivial (Vito’s birthday and year of birth changing from GF to II); some are dumb (Michael’s massacre of the Dons moving backward by five years from GF to II), and some are comical (Roth is either Vito’s contemporary or his junior by 12 or 13 years, depending on which scene you watch in II). But two are troubling, and affect the credibility and logical flow of critical events:

First, some sharp-eared fans hear the radio in Sonny’s car tuned to a broadcast of the final game of the 1951 National League playoff (“The Shot Heard ‘Round the World”) as he takes his fatal drive to the causeway. As supporting evidence, they note that a “Dewey for President” poster is visible when Sonny earlier beats up Carlo. Thomas E. Dewey was the GOP Presidential candidate in 1948, and the tattered condition of the poster suggests that the scene was set in 1949 or 1950—consistent with a timeline leading to Sonny’s death on October 3, 1951.

Impossible! That’d mean that the Five Families War of 1946, with its attendant loss of life, revenues, business opportunities, political influence, etc., had been going on for almost seven years…that Sonny had survived his hot temper and lack of strategic skills for almost seven years…that Vito hadn’t risen from his sickbed (and his wounds hadn’t healed, to judge by the fresh-looking bandage on his throat) for almost seven years…that Michael had been cooling his heels in Sicily for almost seven years…and that he and Apollonia hadn’t had children (or even aged visibly) for all that time.

Second, when Michael and Kay are dancing at Anthony’s party, she says, “You said the Corleone Family would be completely legitimate in five years. That was seven years ago.” Since the party is set in late 1958, it means that Michael and Kay were married in 1951. And since Michael told Kay in GF that he’d been back in the US for “a year, maybe longer,” he must have left Sicily in 1950.

Highly unlikely! It’d mean that Michael remained in Sicily for more than four years. As Vito, Sonny, Don Tomassino (and probably Michael) knew, the danger of his being found out and betrayed would increase exponentially over time. And it would be compounded because Michael traveled around freely and insisted on having a very public wedding. And as we saw, he was found out and betrayed.

I believe that a much shorter time frame is logical and credible:

--Michael met and married Apollonia not long after arriving in Sicily in early 1946. Support: on The Day of the Thunderbolt, Michael, Calo and Fabrizio are passed by a jeep carrying American soldiers (“Take me to de America, GI!”). All US occupation troops were out of Sicily after 1946. Also, Michael visited Corleone for the first time on that day, and I infer that seeing his ancestral town would be a high priority.
--Sonny was killed in 1946. Support: FFC was very diligent about the authenticity of cars and other props in the Trilogy. The US auto industry was just gearing up postwar production in ’46, and both cars in the assassination scene are prewar: Sonny’s driving a ’41 Lincoln Continental and his killers are in a ’41 Cadillac. Also, Thomas E. Dewey was the GOP candidate in ’44 as well as ’48, so the tattered poster would be consistent with Sonny beating up Carlo (and attracting Barzini’s attention to set up the assassination) in ’46.
--Michael returned to the US in ’46, and he married Kay in ’47, or no later than ’48. Support: The clothing worn by Kay and her school kids is mid-‘40’s vintage. The only cars visible in the scene are the ’47 Cad that follows Michael, and a green ’47 Ford Super Deluxe (“woody”) wagon.

So, why the discrepancies? Michael marrying Kay in ’51 fits the 1958 plot line of II, including Anthony’s approximate age for celebrating his First Communion. But II wasn’t envisioned when GF was written and filmed. As for “The Shot Heard Round the World”: NFI. A guess: someone in the Second Unit production crew was having some fun at the expense of a colleague who’d been a Brooklyn Dodgers fan.

Excellent post, TB.

As for the radio broadcast, recordings of radio programming from that era are rare. Even radio stations and networks themselves did not generally archive their programming. The 1951 playoff was probably chosen as the most easily accessible and recognizable period piece available.

Sidebar: The only reason the "Shot Heard 'Round the World" was preserved was because a Dodger fan, anticipating victory, hooked up a recording device to hear Giant broadcaster Russ Hodges "cry" when the Dodgers won. The day after the game, he offered the tape to Hodges.

I agree that's impossible. I'd suggest that the Dodgers/Giants game on the radio when Sonny was shot was simply an anachronism.




Highly unlikely. I'm beginning to think that Mike returned to the U.S. in 1948 (see below for my reasoning). The styles of clothing is thin, at least, for reasoning a date. Perhaps in New Hampshire they were 2-3 years behind the times in style. You also keep bringing up FFC's fanatical detail to cars in the films. It's still quite possible that Mike would have been using a car that was two years old.

OK ... some reasoning of mine:

It was expected that Mike would spend a few years in Sicily. According to Mama Corleone (when Kay Adams came down to the compound while Mike was "away"): "He hide two, three years. Maybe more, maybe much more". [novel pps 237-8].

Vito returned home from the hospital in mid February. The novel has this in 1947 (meaning he spent over 13 months in the hospital - that may be unlikely). [novel p. 251]

Sonny was most likely shot and killed in the summer of 1947. Vito would have had the meeting with the other dons shortly afterwards. The novel points out that it would be another year before he could arrange to bring back Michael from Sicily. [novel p. 300]. That would suggest Mike came back in late 1948, and after a year or more (1950) he went up to New Hampshire to visit Kay. They were most likely married in early 1951 (as you suggested in the original post here).

Geoff - You may want to take another look at your timeline on the parent site. I cannot find any "proof" in "The Sicilian" that Mike returned in 1950 (as you have listed on the timeline).

Also, FWIW - Lucky Luciano was deported in Feb., 1946 NOT 1945 (as is listed on your timeline).

This is perhaps the first time that I'm defending the logic of GFII.
"That was seven years ago", may refer to another discussion between Kay and Michael, not necessarily their meeting in New Hampshire. Also, perhaps Kay's memory might be wrong. After all they were drinking a lot that night.

Yeah, the entire site needs a thorough audit, including the timeline...

I probably got 1950 from Chapter 28 of The Sicilian (p. 389, paperback): "Maria Lombardo Guiliano was up early that morning of July 5, 1950...." which wasn't long before Michael left, which I'll also guess as being in mid-July, 1950.

Lucky's deportation: Mea culpa, thanks

OK... thanks. I'll consider that another of Puzo's "mistakes" but it's interesting nonetheless.

BTW - What the hell are doing woth a paperback edition of that?

It's the first one I saw/grabbed

Complete and total cheapskate that I am, even I have the hardcover of The Sicilian.

I think that TB made the best comment here. When he made The Godfather, FFC had no idea that he would be making GF2.

I've always said that Part II, in spite of it being a GREAT movie, was rushed. Some minor details fell off and some major storyline issues were unclear (who killed the gunmen, etc.).

Agreed. For all his attention to detail, there were some seriously large holes. The timeline is the least of it.

I agree that there's no way that Sonny could have lived until 1951 and Michael stay in Sicily until later that year or the next. Impossible is right. As for the length of Vito's hospital stay, I always assumed that he came home the summer after the shooting.

It certainly looked like summer in the movie (when Vito was coming home in the ambulance) but the novel stated that Sonny had brought Vito home in mid-February.

Too may different sources... too many chances for changes/mistakes.

Well, there's no way that Vito only spent a couple of months in the hospital. Penicillin was a new technology at the time. He could not have healed from all those shots (five? six?) and the surgeries and come home so quickly.

Sorry... the novel states Vito came home in mid-February, 1947. A whole year plus seven weeks after he was brought to the hospital.

I wouldn't be too sure that FFC did not at least suspect there would be a sequel. Two reasons:

1) When Michael tells Fredo threateningly in Las Vegas after Fredo defends Mo Greene: "You're my older brother and I love you,but don't ever takes sides against the Family again. Ever." FFC seems to be setting us up for the day when Fredo does again takes sides against the Family, and Michael makes good on his threat, in GF2.

2) When Michael settles the Family business at the end of GF, you would think that Fabrizio would be at the top of the hit list; and indeed, FFC did film a scene, never used, where Mike himself kills Fabrizio. But there is no hint of Fabrizio being targeted in GF, perhaps because FFC knew he would hit him in GF2.

Yeah, that's correct, Geoffy. Puzo used the real date of Giuliano's death for THE SICILIAN, unlike the death of Pope John Paul I for GF3.

And SC is right, you can get a first edition of THE SICILIAN at AbeBooks for like $3; ya cheap bastard.

THE SICILIAN

Harlan Lebo, in his authoritative "The Godfather Legacy," says that Paramount committed to GFII several months before GF was released. But at the time of the commitment, all the principal photography for GF had been completed except for the Sicilian sojourn, and some minor second-unit stuff.

I have it in hard cover. As I said, "[the paperback]'s the first one I saw/grabbed"

Forget about timeline errors. Just enjoy this beautiful movie...

five

This would also assume that Mike and Kay were married immediately in 1951, yet Anthony was probably about three when Vito died, and then he was seven three years later in 1958.

"Three years old and he can already read the funny papers."

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make, dt.

For argument's sake, let's say that Anthony was born was in November, 1951 (his first communion party was held in November, 1958, probably his seventh birthday). Then in May or June, 1955, when the scene in the garden between Mike and Vito took place, Anthony would have been 3½ (although Mike said "three years old"). In November, 1958, when Part II's party took place, Anthony was seven.

The "math" works correctly.

First Communion typically happens at 7 or 8 years old, depending on what time of the year you're born. It has nothing to do with one's birthday (although in some cases the dates could certainly coincide).

But you're right, SC. The "math" works.

Here's another possible timeline error:

First Communion also typically happens in the spring, usually May (that's when I received my First Communion, in about the same year as Anthony's; same with everyone else in my family and every other Catholic I know). The reason for this is, when you're of the age to receive your First Communion, you spend the school year studying your Catechism, learning about the Catholic religion, and when you've completed that initial study (by spring of the school year) you are ready to receive the Sacrament.

So placing Anthony's First Communion in November doesn't make a lot of sense. Neither does people water skiing on Lake Tahoe in November; by then it's more likely they are snow skiing there.

But if the First Communion took place in May, as logic dictates, then that means the train trip Michael took to Florida to meet with Roth took about 5 months.

It'd probably take at least that long now. The runup in gasoline and diesel prices have caused more companies to ship by rail than truck, so freight has taken big precedence over passengers on our rails.

We had a discussion a few years back about the time of year of First Communions. Most agreed that they usually take place in May, but some argued that it could also take place at other times of the year.

As far as the water skiers in Tahoe (in November)... well, that's another story.

I think FFC just took poetic license and tried to show how the family was getting together for another joyous celebration (like Connie's wedding in Part I) but showing how the family had changed (there was no real warmth at Anthony's party)... a theme he (FFC) tried to show all throughout Part II.

It usually takes place in May, but I bet Michael could have made a donation to the local church and make first communion happen whenever he wished.

...especially since Father Carmello is introduced as "the family priest."