Fair enough then.

C'mon now SB, let's not play with words here. She was just ayoung girl.
I am not sayig that he "physically" forced her to do so. I am in no way saying that she was totally innocent. But let's be realistic. He was the President of the USA and she was a young intern. I would venture to guess that while he absolutely did not "physically" force her, he did somehow force, or perhaps a better word is convince her to perform the act. Not saying that she didn't enjoy it, but common sense says that he, being who he was, somehow manipulated her.

I'm sure he did. He never would have been elected if he wasn't capable of manipulating people to a certain extent. No politician would have. To get people to vote for you, I'm thinking that manipulative is a key personality trait.

And it was a disgrace that his infidelity was smeared all over for the world to see, something that should have stayed private. Just as I agreed that it was a disgrace that the Governor's grandchild-to-be should not have been.

However, I'm more concerned with what happens on November 4th of THIS year.

Noone went after her daughter. What disgrace? Describe it. Palin's daughter is pregnant, 17, and unmarried. That was reported. Simple as that. Her daughter's pregnancy raises questions about her upbringing which was supposedly in an evangelical household. Her pregnancy provides a huge contrast with that household.

TIS raises a great point. If either of Barack's daughters had gotten pregnant that pregnancy would have been attributed to his liberal persuasion. And why in the world would the Palin's introduce her impregnator to Americans as if he was to be applauded. Where is the admonition and recrimination that evangelicals typically heap on others in such situations? He screwed their daughter; their daughter let him. What happened to the abstinence they taught her? Noone went after her daughter; they went after her.

I have to agree with Senor Cardi on this one. She twenty two at the time. He was 50

Just to put it in perspective, Babe. And please don't take this the wrong way. I just want to make a point. Your oldest is 18 now, right? Well, if a 46 year old powerful man took interest in her, don't you think you'd feel that the word coerce would be appropriate?

Now the both of you know very well that Clinton did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Clinton

I agree 100%.

I apologize for bringing up the Clinton saga. But I just wanted to point out that what was considered unfair for one should also be considered unfair for the other.

Now on to current events! On to Nov. 4th 2008!

There is no way in hell that what he did was acceptable. None. But he was president a number of years ago, and has no bearing on THIS election.

And, Olivant, what her daughter did may or may not be morally objectionable. And, yes, I see what you mean about the parading of the baby's father. But, she's still a kid, a kid who made a mistake and is doing the best she can to live with the consequences of her actions. To have to do it under a microscope is a horrible situation.

What I fear is that this girl's pregnancy, and her parent's acceptance of it, makes it appear acceptable to OTHER young girls. And perhaps those girls won't have the family and financial support that Miss Palin does.

Edit: And I wouldn't have to worry about an older man making moves on my daughter. I would just send her Uncle Cardi after him. All taken care of.

Uncle Cardi would have to wait in line behind Mama Mig.

So, under what circumstances would it be morally objectionable?

I don't like to judge people. What may be morally objectionable to you may NOT be morally objectionable to me, and conversely. As I said, she's a kid. She made a mistake.

You're damn right!

How is that a mistake? Wait, I know. As long as she doesn't become pregnant, then it's not a mistake. I see.

She's a kid? The age of consent in Alaska is 16.

So, if murder is not morally objectionable to you, then murder is okay with you? This is so very interesting.

I just found an Obama channel on Dish TV. "Barak Obama's plan for America" with him talking and showing a website.

I'm sorry, this sentence doesn't make the least bit of sense to me, so it's not possible to respond to it.

I'm surprised that JustLou didn't post these CNN/TIME poll numbers, and the Virginia polling surprised me.

FLORIDA:
Obama 51
McCain 47

MINNESOTA:
Obama 54
McCain 43

MISSOURI
Obama 49
McCain 48

NEVADA
Obama 51
McCain 47

VIRGINIA:
Obama 53
McCain 44

http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/01/more-data-shows-obama-battleground-strength/

I figured I'd give it a rest for awhile. Obama is pretty much opening up a lead in every single battleground state right now.

WISCONSIN

Obama: 49
McCain: 40

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/10/01/strategic_vision_obama_holds_big_lead_in_wisconsin.html

Ralph Kramden: "It's a landslide".

Just a couple observations that perhaps may open a discussion:

1. Anyone notice how CNN site use to show the polls at the bottom of their political page every day? Now, since Obama has a lead, you have to go to the political map to get info. (that's the rightwing media for you)

2. I assume most will watch the VP debate tonight right? Watching all the pundits, I am hearing of all the dos and don'ts that Biden should abide by so as not to come across as condesending, sexist or mean. LMAO. My God, is this precious little flower so delicate that she can't be debated?????

I'll bet the Neocons have their talking points already made up accusing Biden of just those things. Heck, Hillary camp did it too, making accusations of sexism. I just dontnecessarily buy into that. At times, it seems a handy excuse. If you want to debate, you can do it without insults sure, but expect a debate and don't expect to be handled with kid gloves just because you're a woman. Besides, she may do much better than expected, if we are to believe the taling heads tht she does hold her own in a debate.


TIS

All 3 cable networks seem to agree that Palin's expectations are so low now, that if she can finish the debate still standing, it will be considered a win for her. As for Biden, he has to keep his answers short and to the point. They expect him to avoid making any comments about Palin, and save all his attacks for McCain.

A new Washington Post/ABC News poll shows that 1/3 of registered voters now say they are less likely to vote for John McCain due to his pick of Sarah Palin. Ouch.

Well, I'm hearing too, that it's really too late for him to "change" his VP choice. It wouldn't make him look good, that's for sure. On the other hand, as far as the debates go, "they" say she does hold her own. They showed a tidbit of her debate with her opponent when she ran for governor. In her favor, I think she has a likeability factor. Granted, that is not reason to vote for someone, but that is the case for many people. She may not do as badly as many think. We'll see.


TIS

I can't wait for tonight. It should be fun. I think each one of them will say something that will be talked about for awhile.

Classic, Lou.

And I'm starting to agree. Barring a monumental October surprise, I can not fathom Obama losing.

I agree with TIS’ statement if the shoe was on the other foot. I can hear all the Fox, right-wing zealots now if Obama’s teenager was pregnant: “See, another black, unwed teenager having a baby. It never ends.” While I agree that these public officials families are off-limits, they are still going to come under some scrutiny regardless. Anyone seeking political office understands that.

Here is why I have no respect whatsoever for Palin as a person, let alone her political stances and her ignorance of so many important aspects regarding the office she is seeking. Palin is an abomination as a parent. I agree that it is not Palin’s fault that her 17 year old kid is pregnant. Regardless, a teenage daughter needs full support to raise a baby. My wife brought up a great point last night about when she had our first child at age 34. My wife called and needed her own mother consistently with many questions about the baby. How in the world is Palin’s 17 year old supposed to get support from the VP of the United State? Worst of all, the baby is the one who ultimately impacted by poor decisions of a teenage mother.

My biggest criticism of Palin as a mother is the neglect of her infant child. How can Palin sleep at night with a Downs Syndrome infant, who needs the attention, affection, and love of both parents far more than a healthy child? I respect Palin's attempt to juggle family and career. But she is running for the world’s 2nd most powerful position, which demands far more than 99% of the jobs we hold. What if the baby needs its mom and Palin is across the world in a meeting or is being briefed about a possible terrorist attack? This is not like you or I getting a call from school that our child is sick and we leave work. It’s quite obvious that Palin's career ambitions are number one and the needs of her family are a distant second. I find that despicable.

Here’s another scenario that scares the hell out of me: six months into the presidency, John McCain suffers a stroke or heart attack and cannot make decisions for the country. Palin assumes the role as Commander-in-Chief and needs to meet with Iraqi leaders, or to discuss a military response in Pakistan or Iran, etc. Or worse yet, McCain is incapacitated for 3 months and Palin has to nominate a Supreme Court Justice. Given the ignorance she displayed with Katie Couric in regarding Supreme Court decisions, our country cannot afford for Palin to be learning on the job. How these hypothetical (yet very possible) examples do not instill complete fear into all voters is incomprehensible to me.

Good points, Goombah. You should submit that as an op-ed piece to the Boca Breeze.

Goombah, good to see you back. I've missed you.

As a mother who works outside the home, I would love to say, "Why should Sarah Palin be punished for being female?", and truly mean it. While it SOUNDS good, but it really isn't the truth. I know from experience that no matter where you are, you feel pulled towards the other, either work or home. And I can't imagine that nightmare if one my daughters had been a special-needs child.

Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it's sexist. Yes, nobody has asked Obama how he would juggle being President and having two young daughters. But the truth is, in most households the mother is the primary caregiver, even if both parents work outside the home. So, yes, Sarah Palin is being punished for being a woman and a mother, but I can't help feeling the way I feel.

OBAMA: 48%
MCCAIN: 41%

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081002/ap_on_el_pr/ap_poll_presidential_race;_ylt=AoVmZ7jMnLtCoRHGM6QeutFh24cA

I don't believe that.

Yeah I'm with several of you on Palin as a dud here, but people don't vote for the VP.

They just don't vote for the top-ticket person.