I know Danny Aiello has claimed ownership for the line, but it is very similar to what is said to Fabrizzio just before he is killed in the book. Maybe they were playing with the line during filming, trying to get it in, but it seems very likely to me that the book is the real source.

And that brings up another "mess" in Part II. The Corleone's would have undoubtedly heard about Pentangeli's survival as well... they still had police officials on the payroll. Yet FFC "forgot" this.

As great as Part II is, I still say that it was rushed to cash in on the popularity of Part I and some storylines simply don't make sense.

Again, Turnbull, that's a thoughtful answer with a lot of logic but ultimately, it's too complicated. No viewer should assume that Aiello is talking to Richie. The angle clearly suggests that Aiello is speaking to Frankie.

It's very strange that Aiello would ad-lib that line. Why would he feel so compelled to ad-lib a line that would confuse the audience? I'm thinking that he must have realized that the line gives Frankie the needed motivation to testify against Michael in the Senate hearings and then he convinced Coppola to use it.

But it really doesn't make sense in the moment. Not if it's Roth who orders Frankie's killing. Which leaves me to believe that the scene is poorly rendered. And ulitmately, a major flaw in the film. Does anyone agree?

...perhaps because there were so many false starts and changes in the scripts that FFC couldn't keep track of them.

I remember that line from the book. That, too, would have made no sense. If Michael, like Vito, needed to provide "buffas" between himself and the underlings who committed crimes on his behalf, why would he have the actual killer tell Fab: "Michael Corleone says hello." If the killer had been caught, or squeezed for another crime, he'd have that to offer the police.

Then again, Michael had three witnessess--Neri, Rocco and Tom--when he gave orders to have Frankie and Roth taken care of. Dangerous! Maybe he was slippin'...

I don't think that the killer saying "the buffer told me to kill Frankie and say Michael says hello" would have any more legal effect against Michael than if the killer said just "the buffer told me to kill Frankie."

Coppola was in a terrific bind with GF2. Every minute of the flashback material took time away from the main Michael-Fredo storyline, but the De Niro scenes are the only thing in the movie that make Michael a tragic figure, instead of a run-of-the-mill monster. The movie is more melodrama than mystery, so I think Coppolla made the right choices, even if we have to connect a lot of the dots ourselves.

The reason that the line makes sense to me when spoken to Fab is that his murder was personal, not business. I can see Michael wanting to make sure that Fab knew he was being killed to avenge Apollonia.

As for the Danny Aiello line, I do not believe that it was an ad-lib or a message to the bartender. I think it is merely the remnant of a discarded plot line.

I believe someone here surfaced an earlier script in which Roth did plan to have Frankie survive--and the line was intended to set Frankie against Michael. That plotline was dropped for obvious reasons--much too far-fetched. But the "Michael Corleone says hello" line was far too prominent to have been left in by mistake. That's why I believe FFC rationalized it as something for Ritchie the bartender.

Rosato definitely intended to kill Frankie. The copo just interrupted the process. That happened to be a good break for Roth as he could now use Frankie to get Michael. It is interesting that Roth had to apparently keep Frankie under wraps as it was clear that Michael thought Frankie was killed ("Who gave the order. I know I didn't"). We all know how Frankie felt about Roth so how Roth ever got Frankie to turn, even if he (Frankie)thought that Michael tried to kill him, is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

As for the seen with his brother at the hearing, all you have to do is look at Vincenzo's facial expression when he first sees his brother. It is clear that this is an issue of honor and not one of fear that Vincenzo would get whacked by Michael. How is it that Michael would have been able to get Vincenzo to America on such short notice. He was clearly there on his own volition.

But hear's another question: Why would Willie Cheech sing to the Feds. Did Roth get to him too, and if so, how?

Great post, fathermarcello. Welcome.

I agree 100% about the brothers Pentangelli. Frankie idolized his brother.

I assume that once they got Frankie talking, they could use his information to bring Cicchi around.

I've always thought that Roth set up the entire Pentangelli scenario. I can't see any way that Frankie could be taken into police custody, without leaving a trace that he was alive, unless someone knew he was coming.

Great first post, offering some insight and thought. Welcome to the boards, fm!

I've always assumed that Willie Cicci was Frankie's "boy" and where ever Frank went, Cicci was sure to follow.

That may have been Vincenzo's motivation, but the threat to Vincenzo posed by Michael was Frankie's.

And Cicci was facing one hell of alot of prison time.

I doubt that Roth knew Frankie had survived until Roth recovered from his stroke. Here's how I think it went down:
--Frankie started talking trash about Michael as soon as he revived. NYPD, recognizing that they finally had on their hands a Mob higher-up willing to rat out his boss, kept Frankie's survival secret, to keep him talking and to protect him from others trying to finish the job the Rosatos started.
--Questadt, Roth's man, was chief counsel to a Senate committee looking into organized crime. He had contacts in NYPD. They told him immediately about Frankie's survival. BINGO! Questadt had a brainstorm: he convinced his committee chairman to get NYPD to release Frankie to FBI custody so the committee could use him to set up Michael for the perjury rap.
--Questadt then contacted Roth. Roth was surprised that Frankie survived. But he immediately figured that if he hadn't known that Frankie was alive, neither would Michael. He then supplied Questadt with details of Michael's involvement in the Great Massacre of 1955, nationwide gambling, etc. That info became the source of the questions the Senators and Questadt asked Michael at the hearing, that set him up for perjury.
--The FBI told Cicci that Frankie had survived and was going to testify against Michael. They advised him that, since his boss was willing to break omerta, Cicci had nothing to lose by doing likewise. If he did, he'd get a break, like Frankie did. If he didn't, Cicci would be the fall guy. Cicci went along.
--The beauty part here: Neither Frankie nor Cicci realized that Roth was pulling the strings! Michael himself didn't realize it until Fredo told him: "That Senate lawyer, Questadt--he belongs to Roth."

As for Vincenzo: the look on his face is one of astonishment that his brother was about to break omerta. But he also could have been worried about the consequences on him and his family at the same time.

I saw some say the bartender would never talk... so then why warn him on the way out?

If the police accuse him of accessory to murder, which would make sense since he was right there and clearly allowed his place to be used for the crime, I don't think you could assume he would never talk. Especially since a cop was shot.

I don't really think that's why the line was put in, but it still makes sense.

But more than that I think the reason for the line is to make Pentangelo's death even more painful and to cause him more hurt. That was pretty common in mafia killings. If the ability to make somebody suffer above and beyond was there, it was done.

After that, I agree with Turnbull's timeline.

As for Frankie's brother, I think he was brought in because it was thought that just his presence would remind Frankie of the "right" thing to do. Would Michael have killed him had Frankie still talked? Probably, but the looks given in the courtroom say "honor" was the real driver, not a simple fear of retaliation.