Bad wording on my part. What I meant was that it's very, very difficult to judge someone on the basis of so much media coverage and not much analytical scrutiny. The sad part of current society is the mass media's doomed general political stance; there's not much room for genuine truth.

I mean what do we really know about Michael Jackson, beyond the phrases we may (and do) apply to anybody else? "Troubled genius", "freak", "musical talent marred by (accusations of) child molestation"; none of that digs beneath any of the bourgeois veils constructed to defer our attentions away from the gross injustices of the actual system.

A sadder part of society (than the general hysteria of mourning the death of a culturally influential artist) is how the molestation charges could even be settled with money. That reveals more about the accusers than the defendant, I think; or at least it says more about the general value of money in capitalist culture as a whole.

It's interesting that death has proved once again to be the best thing that could have happened to a "waning career".

This does get weirder, according to "People" the former nanny would pump MJ's stomach many times because he took combinations of dangerous drugs. Like with Elvis, he had too many "yes men" that were afraid to say no.

And then, if this is true, it doesn't set right as far as I'm concerned? According to this article MJ's mom wanted to know where MJ kept the cash.

TIS



According to Rwaramba, on Friday, the day after Michael died, his mother Katherine called her from Michael's Holmby Hill house and asked where he kept his cash. "She said,

Story

I also found it strange that on TMZ they show a picture of is mom coming out of a Target store yesterday. With all the "people" they have around, it's odd for her to run to Target during her immense grief.

I don't have a link or remember exactly where I heard it, but yesterday they were saying that MJ had a will, but nobody knows what's in it. I really got the impression that he kept a lot from his parents/family and am wondering if he even saw them very often. Although they did report he was close with his mother.


TIS

Indeed.

Let's face it, folks...this is a HUGELY dysfunctional family, has been for many years, and not entirely because of Michael Jackson. That kind of dynamic doesn't change with fame & fortune; in fact it can get even worse. And it did. This may have led in part to Michael's behavior over the years.

LaToya Jackson spoke out for a long time against the family, expressing concern for Michael, during her estrangement with them, while at the same time having problems of her own with her Svangali-type marriage. She came under ALOT of scrutiny for speaking out and not displaying the so-called 'family loyalty' that some (including Katie Couric) apparently expected of her. While she seemed such a turncoat at the time, some LaToya's worst fears for her brother and family may have come to fruition.

This was certainly not one big, rich, happy family all under the same roof. There are many, many 40+ year old men and women who have little touch w/ their families, famous or not. Why would it come as a surprise to any one if he 'kept a lot from his parents/family' or didn't see them very often but remained close with one particlar parent? Janet Jackson has always appeared to be one of the few 'together' members of the family and therefore it came as no surprise to me to learn this morning that SHE is in charge of handling Michael's estate.

Additionally, why on earth would we expect anybody in his family know what is in his will????? With all the debt he was in, there is probably one big mess ahead and whatever is in the will may do little good for anyone over the years ahead. (Family lawyers might be real happy, though...)

We can sit here and scrutinize on the bb and suspect 'immense grief' from a mother who wants to know where the cash is, but in the end this is a very complicated family in for a very complicated future because of the life and death of this VERY complicated man who pretty much single-handedly put them (and kept them) on the map.

Apple

i just wonder how the father (joe i think) feels about his sons passing...i mean its no secret that he beaten michael and made fun of him.

He used to make fun of you, Bam? What a prick.

...damn it! lol

An interesting article:

"‘He has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he is planning to leave behind for his children when he dies. They can’t be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as £60million that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens,’ one of his collaborators revealed.

Yet I can reveal that his will, not as yet made public, demands that the three of them remain with Jackson’s 79-year-old mother Katherine in California. It promises an ugly row. Ex-wife Deborah Rowe, the mother of the eldest two, has already made it clear to her legal team that she wants her children in her custody, immediately.
The mother of the third child has never been identified. I fully expect that it will emerge that the children had a ‘test tube’ conception, a claim already made by Deborah Rowe"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...months-ago.html

Its DailyMail, so take a grain of salt.

New York Post:

An autopsy on Michael Jackson revealed that the King of Pop's emaciated body was riddled with needle marks and scars, and his head was virtually bald, it was reported today.

Jackson's body had wasted away to a mere 112 pounds, and his stomach was completely empty except for partially dissolved pills, according to the London Sun.

His hips, thighs and shoulders were covered with needle wounds, believed to have come from shots of painkillers, and he was wearing a wig when he was found because his hair had been reduced to a "peach fuzz" on his scalp, the report said.

"He was skin and bone, his hair had fallen out, and he had been eating nothing but pills when he died," a source close to the singer's entourage told the paper.

"Injection marks all over his body and the disfigurement caused by years of plastic surgery show he'd been in terminal decline for some years."

There were four fresh injections around his heart, presumably from attempts to pump adrenaline into it to jumpstart it, the paper said.

Three of them had penetrated and damaged his heart wall, while a fourth struck his ribs, the paper reported.

He also sustained several broken ribs while authorities administered CPR during his final moments Thursday.

Jackson had one spot above his left ear that was scarred and completely bald -- the apparent result of burns sustained when his hair caught fire while he was filming a Pepsi commercial in 1984.

He also had numerous other scars, apparently from plastic surgery.

In addition, he had mysterious bruises on his knees and shins and cuts on his back, possibly indicating a recent fall, the paper said.

Jackson has had two autopsies performed on him: one by the Los Angeles coroner and a private one requested by the family.

The details leaked came from the official autopsy. The Sun didn't say how it got the information.

Meanwhile, the cardiologist who was Jacko's private doctor and performed CPR on him did it the wrong way, a Jackson family confidant claimed yesterday.

Dr. Conrad Murray found Jacko on the floor in his rented Los Angeles mansion and put him in a bed, the source said.

Medical experts say that compressions for cardiopulmonary resuscitation must be performed on a hard surface.

"Michael was on the floor first, and they put him on the bed, and then started compressions on the bed," said the source, who had spoken to a Jackson relative. "What kind of doctor is that?"

In a transcript of the 911 call, the person seeking help says Jackson is "on the bed." The dispatcher says, "OK, let's get him down to the floor."

Edward Chernoff, a lawyer for Murray, yesterday said the doctor found Jackson in his bed with a faint pulse.

Chernoff told The Associated Press that Murray was at the pop icon's mansion Thursday afternoon when he discovered Jackson and immediately began administering CPR.

"He just happened to find him in his bed, and he wasn't breathing," the lawyer said. "Mr. Jackson was still warm and had a pulse."

Murray, who spoke to cops for three hours on Saturday, is a licensed MD and specializes in cardiology, although he is not board-certified.

Jackson hired Murray last month as he prepared for a grueling 50-date concert series in London that had been set to start in July.

Chernoff also said Murray never prescribed or gave Jackson the powerful painkillers Demerol or OxyContin. He denied reports suggesting Murray gave Jackson an injection of Demerol shortly before his death.

"Dr. Murray has never prescribed nor administered Demerol to Michael Jackson," Chernoff said. "Not ever. Not that day. Not OxyContin for that matter."

TWO OLDEST KIDS NOT HIS: FORMER WIFE
"I offered him my womb."

Posted: 2:06 am
June 29, 2009

Michael Jackson is not the father of his two oldest kids, says their mom, Debbie Rowe.

In an interview at her California ranch, Rowe, mother of "Prince" Michael Joseph, 12, and Paris Michael Katherine, 11, said she was artificially inseminated by an anonymous donor.

And she said she does not want custody of the kids.

"I know I will never see them again," she said. "I don't want these children in my life."

Rowe, who was speaking to Britain's News of the World, repeated comments she made during a custody battle in 2004.

Jackson and Rowe, 50, were married in November 1996. Three months later, he announced he was expecting his first child with Rowe, a receptionist at a Beverly Hills clinic where he got skin treatments.

"Michael was divorced, lonely and wanted children. I was the one who said to him, 'I will have your babies,' " Rowe told The News of the World.

"I offered him my womb -- it was a gift."

But Rowe said Jackson ditched her after Paris was born because the painful second birth left her "all torn up inside" and unable to have more kids.

The couple divorced after three years.

Janet's appearance at the end of the BET awards.

http://www.tmz.com/

I heard that none of the three are "his" kids. I doubt anyone is surprised by that though.

Like I mentioned in another post, per Diane Dimond (reporter who followed the MJ trials)says that it's possible that the natural father (she claims she knows who it is at least for the first two kids) could claim the children.

Kly would probably be the one to ask. But, if Rowe doesn't want them, and if the biological father did show up and proved he was indeed their father, I'm guessing he'd get priority over even Mrs. Jackson. "Blood is thicker" always seems to rule. Wherever they end up, I sure hope they can live as normal/happy life as possible.

TIS

A Jackson family tribute tour is possible....

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75873/index.html

If Jackson had legal custody and they were not his biologically, I'm certain that he had adopted them. The sperm donor most likely formally relinquished parental rights. Think of the kids as adopted. My guess is that Jackson made provisions for the guardianship of the kids in the event of his death.

His death doesn't restore parental rights to a sperm donor though. In the absence of a designation of guardianship, the child is usually placed within the family of the deceased upon court appeal. If Jackson's mom is willing to raise them, she'll likely get them.

His mom filed guardanship papers today.

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20288314,00.html

As much as the thought of those three kids being reared by Michael's father, the man mostly responsible for him turning into a freak, they do not know their mother. It's in the best interest of the children to keep them with family they know, and not with a stranger, even if she is their mother.

Plus, they shouldn't split up the kids.
A custody battle is apparently brewing over the future of Michael Jackson's three children. Just four days after the singer's sudden death on June 25, Jackson's mother, Katherine, has filed a petition in Los Angeles Probate Court seeking legal guardianship of Jackson's three children.

Jackson had two children – Prince, 12 and Paris, 11 – with ex-wife Debbie Rowe. His youngest son, Prince Michael II, 7, was born to an unnamed surrogate. Although Rowe is still the legal parent of the two older children, her next step is unclear. The children have been staying with Katherine Jackson since the entertainer's died.

A hearing on the petition has been scheduled for August 3.

I don't know. The thought of those kids under the same roof as Joe Jackson is pretty damn scary. I don't know if there is any "official" record that Joe Jackson abused his kids (even though Michael himself has said so). I'd hate too, the thought of separating them, BUT isn't that better than putting them in the same family that f-ed up Michael?

On the CNN web page they have comments on this story and one commenter said, "well that was 40 years ago, give Joe Jackson a break!" I'm sorry, if it were my kid, no way in hell.

And, is it possible that Michael put in his will NOT to leave them with his parents? God, I would hope so. In the end, however, money and/or fame will win over, and I do think the Jacksons will keep the kids. We can just hope the best for them.

Oh, and one more thing. The third child, Blanket (????) has a different mother. Do we know if that mother "signed-off" and even if she did, if she wants to change her mind, I'll bet she could. Bottom line, I don't have much faith that these kids will go anywhere else but with the Jacksons.

TIS

Joe Jackson was on the red carpet last night at the beginning of the BET awards. After the end of the interview he introduces his "partner, who bought a record label, or some other kind of business" and the man was actually plugging his business.

Then during the telecast he was sitting next to Al Sharpton. I guess he's grateful now that no black person has been beaten up, and the country elected a black president, the man has had no reason to be in the public eye to protest something. They're the worst two media whores around.

Blanket's mom was an unknown surrogate. I don't think she even knew at the time who she was giving the kid too. I think someone said under California law a surrogate relinguishes all parental rights. So Blanket has no mother, per say.

Well, Joe Jackson & Al Sharpton were both on tv about an hour ago. Although I was blow drying my hair and muted the tv so I had subtitles to read, Joe seemed to be promoting this business as well. I wasn't sure until reading your post Beth, and now I can confirm it was the same business. I get the feeling Joe feels he's now in charge and loving every minute of it.

TIS

The man never cared about his son in life, and he doesn't seem to care about him in death either. He even had the nerve to say last night he wished the world loved Michael this much when he was alive. He should rehearse that in his mirror.

They replayed the documentary Michael gave years ago, when he talks about his father. His father was always putting him down and making fun of his big nose and acne, saying he didn't get that from HIS side of the family. I have no idea what the mother sees in him.

FWIW, breaking on the "ED Show"....MJ has NO will. Can you freekin' imagine the circus? The parents, the siblings, managers, doctors, lawyers will all want their cut. And, don't count Debbie Rowe or the unnamed surrogate of Blanket out. I'm telling you, it's gonna get crazy. When money is involved people will be coming out of the woodwork.


TIS

Edit..I'm confused because one lawyer they say, is saying he DOES have a will but it's old.

well paul mccartney will get screwed again...and so will everybody else...may the circus begin!

Did anyone see the video of the inmates in the Phillipines dancing to thriller?

http://www.popcrunch.com/filipino-thriller-dance-inmates-perform-michael-jackson-tribute/

They did that about a year ago. I did hear they were gonna pay tribute again. They have lots of time to practice it I assume. That "girl" is a guy right?

They also have a youtube video of a wedding party doing Thriller. I'd love to learn it, but too bad I can't dance. Still, it'd be fun to get a group of people and learn it.


TIS

But if he's in debt (as bad as alleged), is there even going to be money to spread around to all the various vultures? Granted, his music is #1 in the stores right now posthumously, but from what I understand, he is deep in the hole debt-wise. And they'll be first in line for his (financial) remains.

well the london concert is still planned, and with other celebrities taking the place of michael...if that is still planned that is.

It took 1/2 hour for the doctor to call 911. Oh boy! Big law suit now I can only imagine.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06292009/new..._cal_176741.htm

yup he totally did something, and worried about it being found out. along with the doctor i can see the people who hired him being sued as well.