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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Lilo]
#557963
10/19/09 04:36 AM
10/19/09 04:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 22
The_Mechanic
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 22
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Yea, maybe someone can explain it better than me....but big Paulie seemed to give the DeMeo crew carte blanche dealing dope, but the gotti crew seemed afraid to do it, partially the reason they took him out at Sparks....besides the fact that "quack quack" was on tape, badmouthing big paul, and john's brother gene, was indicted for dealing smack.
Last edited by The_Mechanic; 10/28/09 07:53 PM.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Turnbull]
#563306
12/27/09 02:52 PM
12/27/09 02:52 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4 holland
prodotti
Associate
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Associate
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4
holland
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All true about RICO, guys. The real impact of RICO is that, before it was passed, law enforcement had to catch a Mob guy in the act of committing a crime, and get more than one witness to it. RICO made it a crime, punishable by double-digit sentences, to be part of a "criminal conspiracy." "Conspiracy" is very important:" no corroborating witness is required for the government to obtain a conviction. And RICO also eased the burden of proof by simply requiring law enforcement to show that the accused was part of a "pattern" of crimes. "Corrupt organization" is also very important. That means that if the Mob guy was influencing a labor union (a favorite of Mobs), the union could be characterized as a "corrupt organization." Two other very important aspects of RICO: 1. A guy who was victimized by the Mob could be considered part of a "corrupt organization" because he "cooperated" with the Mob even though he was forced. So, if you were a degenerate gambler who was into a Mob loan shark for a lot of money that you couldn't pay back; and the Mob guy forced you to "bust out" your business to pay him back; then you could be charged under RICO because your busting out of your business constituted a "corrupt organization." Faced with a double digit sentence, you'd have a big incentive to cooperate with law enforcement against the Mob guy. 2. RICO for the first time specified iron-clad rules for obtaining phone taps and other forms of electronic surveillance that would stand up as evidence in any court of law. Previously, a lot of "bugs" were thrown out by judges as being illegal. Not after RICO, though. And, yes DMC and DC: it's true that RICO languished for 10 years before Rudy Giuliani, as US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, finally figured out how to use it. He invited Robert Blakely, the lawyer who wrote RICO, to daily brief his investigators and assistant prosecutors on how the law could work. Giuliani, a great fan of the GF Trilogy, called Blakely, "my consigliere." After his huge success in the famous Commission case, prosecutors all over the country figured out that they could heap glory on themselves by using RICO to prosecute the Mob. The best source on RICO and how it works is Selwyn Raab's "The Five Families," IMO the best Mob book of the last 10 years. not forget that RICO was also used as a presure to get more information out of a convicted (or trialed) mafioso. Normally a guy would do his time and return into society as a free man, enjoying his wealth that he made before he got caught. RICO changed all that. If he would be out of jail, all his worldy assats would have been taken away from him. His wife and kids would be broke during his absences and would be in the mercy of his family or wealthfare. So after RICO, people chose to rat out their friends much quicklier. It was basically the end of Omerta as I see it.
Last edited by prodotti; 12/27/09 02:53 PM.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: calabresesoldier]
#572592
04/22/10 10:29 PM
04/22/10 10:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I was under the impression Ruggiero was dealing heroin also. I find it surprising that Gotti was allowed to stay boss, it seemed that he wasn't very well liked throughout the Gambino family, maybe feared. Angelo Ruggiero, Gene Gotti, and John Carneglia were the leaders of the heroin ring. They took it over from Angelo's brother Salvatore after he died in a plane crash. Bosses usually get to keep their title even after they go to prison. But by the late 1990's there was pressure for Gotti to step down and name someone else boss. Nick Corozzo almost became the new boss but he was indicted before that could happen. After Gotti died in 2002, his brother Peter became the new boss. John Jr. had also been acting boss for a time previously.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: IvyLeague]
#572670
04/24/10 11:48 AM
04/24/10 11:48 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20 Baltimore
calabresesoldier
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20
Baltimore
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Yes I read that book as well. Then I read War of the Godfathers by Roemer, I think his info was off, but the times didn't add up, in his book Bonnano supposedly went to a small war with the Outfit in the 80's, and it also suggests he took a capo and crew with him to Arizona and Bill his son, had one in California. But as I said I believe a lot of that book to be fiction.
Also, going back to the Bonnano family when Galante was hit, I know why, but who was the boss of the family at the time. Galante was very loyal to Bonnano, his consigliere, before he went away, so maybe Bonnano had some clout. But Rastelli is also listed as the boss at that time, was the family broke up into two factions?
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: calabresesoldier]
#572697
04/24/10 02:19 PM
04/24/10 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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I wanted to know if anyone knows why Frank Nitti killed himself, I really never found much information on that topic. He was the outfit boss, and went to the tracks and killed himself, does anyone know? I have seen diferent hypotheses on whether Nitti was the Boss of the Outfit in quite the same way that a NY Family Boss would be of a NY Family-with complete and total control. The Outfit was organized a little differently. While I wouldn't say Nitti was a front boss he may have been something closer to a CEO. In any event Nitti was the identifiable leader of the Outfit and the one who had led the Outfit into the Hollywood extortion cases. When this went bad (Browne/Bioff got arrested and ended up providing information-at first inadvertently and then on purpose to the authorities), much of the initial post-Capone leadership hierarchy was indicted. Greatly angered, everyone met at Nitti's house to plan strategy. Being the self-serving sort of people they were a consensus was reached that since much of this was Nitti's fault anyway and since he was the guy out front, he should just take the fall for everyone. Ricca was the leader of this faction and the most vocal about it. Of course Nitti didn't see anything logical about this and was of the opinion that since it was a conspiracy charge everything would be fine if they just all stuck together. Nitti had been in prison before and had ZERO desire to go back. Nitti and Ricca started screaming at each other and finally Ricca said "Frank, you're asking for it". This was widely understood to be a threat to either do the time or wind up dead. At that Nitti told everyone to leave his house. The next day he killed himself.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Mignon]
#574127
05/20/10 11:41 PM
05/20/10 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 729 The Wrong Side Of The Tracks
Don Rico
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 729
The Wrong Side Of The Tracks
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All true about RICO, guys. The real impact of RICO is that, before it was passed, law enforcement had to catch a Mob guy in the act of committing a crime, and get more than one witness to it. RICO made it a crime, punishable by double-digit sentences, to be part of a "criminal conspiracy." "Conspiracy" is very important:" no corroborating witness is required for the government to obtain a conviction. And RICO also eased the burden of proof by simply requiring law enforcement to show that the accused was part of a "pattern" of crimes. "Corrupt organization" is also very important. That means that if the Mob guy was influencing a labor union (a favorite of Mobs), the union could be characterized as a "corrupt organization." Two other very important aspects of RICO: 1. A guy who was victimized by the Mob could be considered part of a "corrupt organization" because he "cooperated" with the Mob even though he was forced. So, if you were a degenerate gambler who was into a Mob loan shark for a lot of money that you couldn't pay back; and the Mob guy forced you to "bust out" your business to pay him back; then you could be charged under RICO because your busting out of your business constituted a "corrupt organization." Faced with a double digit sentence, you'd have a big incentive to cooperate with law enforcement against the Mob guy. 2. RICO for the first time specified iron-clad rules for obtaining phone taps and other forms of electronic surveillance that would stand up as evidence in any court of law. Previously, a lot of "bugs" were thrown out by judges as being illegal. Not after RICO, though. And, yes DMC and DC: it's true that RICO languished for 10 years before Rudy Giuliani, as US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, finally figured out how to use it. He invited Robert Blakely, the lawyer who wrote RICO, to daily brief his investigators and assistant prosecutors on how the law could work. Giuliani, a great fan of the GF Trilogy, called Blakely, "my consigliere." After his huge success in the famous Commission case, prosecutors all over the country figured out that they could heap glory on themselves by using RICO to prosecute the Mob. The best source on RICO and how it works is Selwyn Raab's "The Five Families," IMO the best Mob book of the last 10 years. You talkin' to ME? You TALKIN' TA ME!?!?!?! I don't see nobody else here... You talkin' ta ME!?!?!?!
Last edited by Don Rico; 05/21/10 12:11 AM.
Power wears out those who do not have it.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: calabresesoldier]
#574128
05/20/10 11:45 PM
05/20/10 11:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 729 The Wrong Side Of The Tracks
Don Rico
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 729
The Wrong Side Of The Tracks
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I wanted to know if anyone knows why Frank Nitti killed himself, I really never found much information on that topic. He was the outfit boss, and went to the tracks and killed himself, does anyone know? I caught a made-for-TV movie on LIFETIME or some shit, a few years back and in the end, Frank Nitti just "walked upon those tracks" and got himself "runned over"... ... Yeah right.
Power wears out those who do not have it.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Don Rico]
#574453
05/26/10 12:50 PM
05/26/10 12:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635 AZ
Turnbull
OP
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OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
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I wanted to know if anyone knows why Frank Nitti killed himself, I really never found much information on that topic. He was the outfit boss, and went to the tracks and killed himself, does anyone know? I caught a made-for-TV movie on LIFETIME or some shit, a few years back and in the end, Frank Nitti just "walked upon those tracks" and got himself "runned over"... ... Yeah right. The Outfit had penetrated and corrupted a key Hollywood labor union. The racket was exposed in a newspaper series in 1943, and the Mob's front man, Willie Bioff, was indicted. He and his co-defendants then ratted out their higher-ups in the Outfit. Paul (the Waiter) Ricca and others in the Outfit demanded that Nitti take the rap and go to jail as a "stand up guy." Nitti had done 18 hard months for income tax evasion previously, and he didnt' want any more time. So, he got drunk, wandered onto the railroad tracks--and shot himself in the head.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Turnbull]
#578028
07/25/10 12:38 AM
07/25/10 12:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
NINOFUKNGAGGI
Associate
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Associate
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Don Rico]
#578115
07/26/10 07:53 PM
07/26/10 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 149 The US of Frickin A!!!
Tru_Bizelli
Humble Friend of Yours!
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Humble Friend of Yours!
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 149
The US of Frickin A!!!
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All true about RICO, guys. The real impact of RICO is that, before it was passed, law enforcement had to catch a Mob guy in the act of committing a crime, and get more than one witness to it. RICO made it a crime, punishable by double-digit sentences, to be part of a "criminal conspiracy." "Conspiracy" is very important:" no corroborating witness is required for the government to obtain a conviction. And RICO also eased the burden of proof by simply requiring law enforcement to show that the accused was part of a "pattern" of crimes. "Corrupt organization" is also very important. That means that if the Mob guy was influencing a labor union (a favorite of Mobs), the union could be characterized as a "corrupt organization." Two other very important aspects of RICO: 1. A guy who was victimized by the Mob could be considered part of a "corrupt organization" because he "cooperated" with the Mob even though he was forced. So, if you were a degenerate gambler who was into a Mob loan shark for a lot of money that you couldn't pay back; and the Mob guy forced you to "bust out" your business to pay him back; then you could be charged under RICO because your busting out of your business constituted a "corrupt organization." Faced with a double digit sentence, you'd have a big incentive to cooperate with law enforcement against the Mob guy. 2. RICO for the first time specified iron-clad rules for obtaining phone taps and other forms of electronic surveillance that would stand up as evidence in any court of law. Previously, a lot of "bugs" were thrown out by judges as being illegal. Not after RICO, though. And, yes DMC and DC: it's true that RICO languished for 10 years before Rudy Giuliani, as US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, finally figured out how to use it. He invited Robert Blakely, the lawyer who wrote RICO, to daily brief his investigators and assistant prosecutors on how the law could work. Giuliani, a great fan of the GF Trilogy, called Blakely, "my consigliere." After his huge success in the famous Commission case, prosecutors all over the country figured out that they could heap glory on themselves by using RICO to prosecute the Mob. The best source on RICO and how it works is Selwyn Raab's "The Five Families," IMO the best Mob book of the last 10 years. You talkin' to ME? You TALKIN' TA ME!?!?!?! I don't see nobody else here... You talkin' ta ME!?!?!?! I never did understand the "union" deal with the mob .. anybody can sum that up in a few sentences? For i.e. "We're with the Union" ;-) lol Thanks!
~ Woke Up This Morning And Bought Myself A Gun ~ ~ Curtis "Ray Biselliano" Bizelli ~
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Tru_Bizelli]
#578117
07/26/10 09:09 PM
07/26/10 09:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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I never did understand the "union" deal with the mob .. anybody can sum that up in a few sentences? For i.e. "We're with the Union" ;-) lol
Thanks!
Are you asking why the mob was attracted to unions or how they used them? Unions used to be a much larger section of the private marketplace than they are currently. Mob control over or influence in a union means at the very minimum that mob associates or members can get no show jobs, legal income and legitimate health care coverage/pensions. But that's pocket change. Union control means votes which means political influence. And if you control the union not only do you get to extort the working man (union and non union) in a variety of ways , you can do the same thing (extortion/racketeering) to businesses and even municipalities or states. And if you're smart enough and entrepreneurial enough there's no end to the games you can play with pension fund loans and withdrawals. You can throw work to favored companies-i.e those owned by your in-laws or other relatives. You have an inside track to steal whatever goods the union happens to produce. You have a captive market for loansharking and gambling. Depending on the type of union you might even have a reserve force of muscle that you can use for jobs. Back when unions were common and the Mob was strong, there were tons of ways to make money.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Turnbull]
#578606
08/03/10 09:40 PM
08/03/10 09:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 197
jvanley
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 197
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Many people on these boards, especially younger people, ask questions or make statements about Mob life that are often myths--not realities. I'd like to start a thread that helps clear up the myths. I'll post occasionally, and ask you to post your own ideas, thoughts, explanations. Here's the first:
BEING "MADE" IN THE MOB IS DANGEROUS TO LIFE AND LIBERTY
Many younger people believe that getting "made" in the Mafia is the ultimate glory. Nothing could be further from the truth: Getting "made" is just about the worst thing that could happen to anyone:
First you have to serve an "apprenticeship," during which you'll have to kiss the asses of every member of the crew you hope to join, and turn over most of your earnings to a boss who thinks you're lower than whale s**t. If you're "lucky," the apprenticeship will last for a decade or less. By that time, you'll have convinced the boss that you're dumb and compliant enough to be "honored" by being made. So, you'll probably be assigned to kill someone you don't know, for a reason that's not explained to you; and take all the risk on yourself with no reward. If you manage to whack the guy without being killed, injured or arrested, your "reward" will be the famous "induction ceremony"--the fingers pricked so that your blood runs together with the Don's (just hope he doesn't have AIDS or some other STD); the burning saint's card, the oath, the kisses on the cheek, etc. Now you've got it made, right?
Wrong! Your troubles have just begun: You'll be assigned to a crew chief whose purpose in life is to squeeze you dry. You'll be given a "living"--a sports betting operation, some numbers, drugs or loan shark action. But since the Mob is a pyramid scheme, your crew chief will give you a "nut"--an amount that you must kick back to him each week, whether or not your rackets generate enough profit to cover it. He'll set the amount so high that you'll have no time or opportunity to do anything on your own except work for him. And if you fail to meet the weekly nut, he'll hit you with the same "vig" that he charges his loan shark victims--six percent per week.
Oh, and let's not forget your new "brothers" in the Mafia--the guys who kissed you on the cheek when you got made, and now refer to you as "a friend of ours." Every one of them has contacts in law enforcement that they feed info to in return for being left alone to pursue their own rackets. As soon as your ceremony was completed, they were on the phone to their favorite cops, informing them of the newest member of the Mob. Suddenly you're going to get more attention from law enforcement personnel than a visiting head of state. Your "brothers" will see you as insurance for them when they commit high profile crimes: they'll tip off their police pals that you did the dirty deeds. And, if you manage to survive all of that, the Don'll evntually get nailed on a RICO charge, and he'll rat out you and your other "brothers" in return for a free pass to the Witness Protection Program.
"Honored Society"? You'd be better off washing dishes for a living. This is a great post........ but.....It couldnt be any further from the truth. For guys like well, ALL of us on this board and 95 percent of the world, it would be infact a scary proposition to take the oath of Omerta. But to the other 5 percent of the population who call themselfs associates, this is the ultimate glory. You see, all those guys have an uncle/brother/father/etc who grew up in brookly, howard beach, ozone park, staten island, whatever and all they can think about is getting their button. They dont care that 95 percent of the people who ever get their button end up dead or in the can. Guys like US, we would run from a button because we grew up in kansas, Utah, Sunny California, ETC. We have uncles, fathers, brothers who are accountants, personal trainers and car salesman.....not loan sharks, herion dealers, pump and dumps and Enforcers... My point.... to the average normal world and hard working society, ya a button is a dead end road to jail, death or the witness protection program. to the other part of the world known as "associates", the button is a right of passage to never have to have a legitmate job drilling rivets at a machine shop, teaching, or mowing 20 yards a day for a hundred bucks. It is their right of passage to do whatever they want, whenever they want. When they break their rules they die, when we do we get a citation. Mu point is that what scares you and I does not scare these guys, they live by their own set of rules and have their own set of fears.....an they fear NO ONE, who well.....doesnt have a button.
Last edited by jvanley; 08/03/10 09:50 PM.
FatGirl:Your cute Me:Ok FatGirl:So you wanna buy me a drink? Me:No FatGirl:Why not? Me:Well Its tricky pumpkin,If I buy u a drink, every fat girl in here would think I liked fat girls & ask me to buy them a drink also. See ,I dont like fat girls unless im wasted and given Im only one drink deep so far, so you better buy me the drink honey, cause this 20 bucks aint covering the booze and drive thru ill need to take you home tonight
08/13/2009-jvanley Spanky Bar, 3rd stool from the left
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Dapper_Don]
#578610
08/03/10 09:59 PM
08/03/10 09:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 197
jvanley
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 197
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yeah he was running the fam while on the lam and also orderign a bunch of hits on people he suspected of being informers or of double crossing him. read "Gaspipe:confessions of a Mafia Boss" its a good read! Thats the thing though, everyone THOUGHT Casso was "suspecting" people of being informers.... He actually had a total of 5 FBI agents and local cops on his payroll(we all know about louie and steve) but he had Doug Mcane and others who would go straight to him and say: "Hey so and so is cutting a deal or rolling over on you" Then Casso would disbatch a hit team and kill them. No one, I mean no one ever knew other than Burton Kaplan Casso had these people telling him this. This was infact one of the MAJOR reasons for his downfall, people thought he was killing people for no good reason and was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to paranoid. Well, he wasnt, no one knew he was being told these people REALLY were rats. In turn, everyone was thinking, my god, am I next? is he going to suspect me?????
FatGirl:Your cute Me:Ok FatGirl:So you wanna buy me a drink? Me:No FatGirl:Why not? Me:Well Its tricky pumpkin,If I buy u a drink, every fat girl in here would think I liked fat girls & ask me to buy them a drink also. See ,I dont like fat girls unless im wasted and given Im only one drink deep so far, so you better buy me the drink honey, cause this 20 bucks aint covering the booze and drive thru ill need to take you home tonight
08/13/2009-jvanley Spanky Bar, 3rd stool from the left
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities
[Re: Mukremin]
#586272
11/20/10 12:20 PM
11/20/10 12:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635 AZ
Turnbull
OP
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OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,635
AZ
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Sorry I just spotted your post, Mukremin. And welcome to the Boards! For a thorough understanding of the rackets you cited, you should read Selwyn Raab's "The Five Families," which goes into all of them in brilliant detail. In general, the Mob can dominate a racket like concrete, garbage collection, window replacement, etc., by forming a contractors' "association." This "association" is a Mob front. First they go to the prime contractor for a new office building, and declare that only concrete companies that are members of the "association" will be permitted to work on his site. Then, if you are a concrete contractor, you will be told that you must join the "association" in order to get business. You pay "dues" to the "association" that amount to, say, ten dollars per ton of concrete poured. You tack that cost onto your bill to the prime contractor. He passes that cost onto the building owner, who passes it on to building tenants, etc. Labor unions have always been a rich source of money and power for the Mob. A Mob will infiltrate a union and have one or more of its members elected or appointed to key positions in the union. Unions have big treasuries made up of dues paid, plus contributions toward pension funds and healthcare. The Mob guys simply plunder the treasuries. Another racket is political power: Mob-controlled unions can endorse politicians, and contribute to their campaigns, in return for political favors. And, Mob-controlled unions can shake down contractors by demanding under-the-table payoffs to officials, as well as dozens of "no-show" jobs. These are well-paid jobs on construction sites that the unions dole out to favored Mob guys who never have to work a single day but still get paid. Hope that helps.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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