im taking hunting lessons from dick cheney...good thing its free

I do not think its a good political move by the dems to force young people to get insurance. Once you start to force people to buy things with there money if they do not want it you will also lose their vote.

ds

Like we can't register our cars without insurance? And this protects the other drivers on the road? And protects us from them? Like that?

While I am in total agreement that we are in dire need of an overhaul with our healthcre system, I do not feel comfortable when I hear things like "people should be fined if they do not get healthcare" and the "people should be forced to buy healthcare."

To me once you give that kind of blanket authority to government you begin (to borrow a favorite phrase that our friend Plaw loved to use) to walk on the slippery slope.

Yes, I understand that there are many out there who CAN afford healthcare but do not have it and instead take advantage of and manipulate the programs that the government offers using taxpayer monies ( social services disability, social security, etc.).

But at the same time there are people out there who CANNOT afford healthcare who will need government / taxpayer assistance in order to get decent healthcare. And for these people we already have a system that provides health services to them. Unfortunately that system has fallen into near ruins because of the abuses that have been allowed to take place and build up over the years. But either way, under a new system or under the system that we currently have, our tax dollars are being used or will be used to provide healthcare to those who cannot afford to pay for their own.

Overhaul needed? Absolutely. But I believe that we need to start the overhaul where the real abuses begin: The Insurance companies themselves, the lawyers who are raping the insurance companies with their bogus lawsuits, the doctors who are abusing the system and billing the insurance companies for medical services or treatments that are not really needed or never even performed, and the people who are manipulating our system with their fake claims of not being able to afford medical coverage.

I paid for my own coverage for many years when I owned my own business, and believe me when I tell you that the monthly premiums were totally outrageous. So I am in total agreement that something needs to be done to make the current healthcare system more affordable for both businesses and individuals. In total agreement that the system needs to be tweaked in order to give access to healthcare treatment and coverage to those who really cannot afford it or get it.

But to arbitrarily "FINE" people for not purchasing Health Insuranace or arbitrarily "FORCE" people to purchase health insurance without reviewing a situation on a case by case basis is NOT the place, in my opinion, to start or overhaul a national healthcare program.

BOTH political parties want to make us believe that it's a black and white issue. It's not. There is still a lot of gray regarding this issue.

BTW - Mandatory Car insurance is NOT a federal requirement, but is actually a state by state law and in my opinion is totally a different animal than mandatory healthcare. But that issue my be better off debated in a totally seperate thread of it's own.

DC, while mandatory auto insurance may not be federal, the spirit of its intent is the same as requiring healthcare. It's for the protection of the greater good, and I see no problem with it. I don't think it's Big Brother-ish at all. There are too many gaps in the current system, and if the whole thing isn't overhauled, then what's the point?

Keep premiums in check, stop the insurance companies from wiggling out of paying people what they deserve, give an affordable alternative to those who need it, and stop the abuses in Medicare and Medicaid.

As for fines, though, I agree. It's a stupid idea.

That's what I originally said. :









Again, that's what I originally said. :

I think mandatory auto insurance is for the 'greater good' because in case of an accident, the insurance of the driver at fault covers much of the cost (believe me, I know). Same w/ homeowner's insurance, if someone happened to slip & fall on somebody else's front steps.

But in both those instances the owner is paying for their own insurance, out of their own pocket, not having it yanked out via taxes so that they are covering every other home or car owner in the country, like it or not. Which is Big Brother-ish.

So the spirit of the intent is absolutely not the same.

Apple

Good article.

I think it's hilarious seeing Obama likened not only to 'Hitler' (as had also been done to GW Bush), but also to 'The Joker'...as noted here.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090912/ap_on_re_us/us_taxpayer_rally

Personally, I don't think it's hilarious to see anyone compared to Hitler. I think it's distasteful to compare somebody to a man who was responsible for the murder of millions.

And, you're so right about taxes not paying for health insurance. Because we're not paying for Medicaid now out of our taxes. Oh, wait! We are!! And we certainly don't end up paying for those ER visits made by the uninsured! Oh, wait! We do!!

This comparison with Hitler is outrageous. Hitler, a mass murderer, who stirred hatred, who turned a civilised country into a totalitarian country. Historically, the basis for comparisons with Nazi "health care reform" are absolutely ridiculous. The guy who invented the universal health care in Prussia in 1883 was called Bismarck. A conservative, monarchist guy, who tried (succesfully) to keep social democrat party down.
Well, that was 126 years ago. If Obama's plan fails, Americans will continue to pay minimum standard health care out of the taxpayer's pocket, they will be screwed by insurances who can mess around with most of their customers.
But you don't need to worry. America's economy is strong enough to throw the money out of the window and to waste economic resources.

Comparisons to Hitler as well using the word racism have been cheapened so much because they both have been thrown around so much and with such alacrity. From my experience, most people's knowledge of the Third Reich is superficial. Racism is a belief more than behavior. More prudence should be illustrated whenever using either.

Well said SB!

I think and always have thought that it is disgusting. I thought it was disgusting when many of the far left liberal loonies would call former President George W. Bush Hitler, and I think that it's a disgrace that the loonies from the far right now think it's ok to call President Obama a Hitler. What makes it even worse is that some people think that it's ok to call this President a Hitler becaause the former President was called a Hitler.

I doubt many are thinking it's 'ok' to compare Obama to Hitler just because it was done to Bush (and also Rudy Guliani locally; I once saw a Manhattan street artist selling drawings of him w/ the Hitler mustache & hair).

What needs to be pointed out though, is that many who are freaking out right now about it happening to Obama, were perfectly cool about it and/or somehow managed to look the other way when it was his GW on the receiving end.

(And I'm not necessarily referring to any BB members)

And distasteful or not...how wonderful that these extremists on BOTH sides are free to protest in the first place.

Apple

On that point I totally agree with you! Many of the same who are kicking and screaming about the things that are being said about this president ( and not that I agree with the attacks that have been made on him or his character)are the same people who villified Bush, attacked his character and made the exact same kinds of attacks that they are now getting offended by when they are made on Obama.

(And that includes a very small few of the BB members)

One of the best ones that I look back on and then hear now is :

Under Bush : "He was in office for 8 months and after that amount of time he should have been more on top of things!"

Presently about Obama : " Hey! Give him a break! He's ONLY been in office for a short 8 months! Give him some time!"



Not taking any sides here, nor am I about bashing our President. I happen to agree that he is only in office 8 months and believe that he should be given ample time before being judged. And I said the same thing when Bush was in office.

All I'm looking for when people give their opinions about someone they dislike and then go on to defend someone that they support is consistancy.

People shouldn't get all twisted and pissy when "their" guy is attacked when they themselves once attacked the other guy that they didn't like using the same phrases, referrences and tactics.

They compared LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, & Bush 43 to Hitler, so I am not surprised they are doing the same to Obama, distasteful as it is. What I found really offensive were the signs that said "Bury Health Care With Ted Kennedy." That was way over the top.

On a different subject, there is a poll somewhere on line which asks who kept us safer for the first 8 months of his presidency, Bush or Obama. Bush was leading this by about a 2-1 margin. Strange because 9/11 happened in the first 8 months of the Bush presidency.

Hitler comparisons are never okay. Not unless you're comparing him to someone else who killed 6 million people. It's an insult to every Jew who lost their life to that maniac, every Jew who survived the concentration camps, and every soldier who lost his life in World War II.

You are right PB, but the bottom line is that people make those comparisons so often about so many different national and world leaders,not to mention terrorists, that such comparisons have become as trite as they are stupid.

BTW your new avatar is a vast improvement over the last one. I was beginning to wonder about you.

6 million? You can multiply with ten. 55 to 60 million people lost their life in world war II.

Neither Fox's website or the Drudge Report are stating the number who showed up in Washington on Saturday to protest health care reform et al. From what I can tell that seems to be because only "tens of thousands' did show up. However, some Republicans are running with the figures. Here's a sample:


ABC fights back against Tea Party protest size falsehoods

ABC News has released a news report saying it was "misquoted" on the size of the Tea Party protest that took place Saturday in Washington, DC.

The network says that, at some point during the protest, FreedomWorks President Matt Kibbe -- the head of the organization that organized the demonstration -- stood before the crowd and announced that ABC News had said the crowd at the protest was between one million and 1.5 million people.

ABC said no such thing. As Josh Marshall reported at TalkingPointsMemo, the fire department estimated the crowd at 60,000 to 70,000 people -- a "respectable" size, but nowhere near the order of magnitude that ABC says Kibbe claimed.

You're right. I was only counting those killed in the concentration camps.

I see the teabaggers are now blaming the D.C. Metro system for the low turnout last week.

On Fox and Friends the other day, Glen Beck stated that a university had examined the videos of Saturdauy's Washington march and had concluded that 1.7 million people attended. When Mike Doocy asked him which university did the study, he said "I can't remember."

Yeah, ya gotta love Beck---a twice married, former drug addict and drunk---as the moral conscience of our great nation.

You know he's an expert on religion, too. I read he had a whole semester of theology, while taking classes for non-traditional students (read: retards) at Yale.

So what do you guys think of the newest Acorn scandal?

I'm against anything that keeps Nancy Pelosi's ugly face on television.

Obama: Kanye West a "jackass"



I think both sides can agree on this.

Reminds me back in '04 when Dubya called a reporter an asshole.

I would love to punch her in her face.

Bashing Nancy Pelosi - can that be considered a political position? Is that a right wing conservative political position, or just blowing off steam?

Speaking of Nancy Pelosi, and in spite of her constant "pasty" look, I do believe she was sincere in her comments today. She was in San Fransciso at the time of the Harvey Milk and the mayor (forgot his name, as I only recently found out about this story since the movie) murder.

I heard tonight that it was our current California senator, Senator Feinstein, who discovered Harvey Milk's body. I didn't know that. They played a video for Diane from 1970something telling a crowd that both were murdered.


TIS

They said that when a black man becomes president, pigs will fly.

Exactly 100 days after Barack Obama became president swine flu.