Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Why was there not an explosion of demand and hiring during the years that the Bush tax cuts were in force?
This war is absolutely draining the treasury. Every dime of the trillion dollars spent so far is borrowed. So it's not accurate to say we're spending money on the war, when really we're borrowing every second of the day to finance this war. REally it's the 'windfall' costs that haven't yet been accounted for that's caused so much hesitancy in all the markets and helping to freeze hiring.


Uh, ok. Lemme get this straight. smile You're blaming the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for hurting the economy even though the people that lied us into war in Iraq and said Afghanistan would be a cakewalk are the EXACT SAME people who said that tax cuts for the rich would be the best way to stimulate the economy, the wars would pay for themselves without any tax increases, and tax cuts would not raise the deficit. Fool me once and all that. The people-i.e liberals- wink who were against the tax cuts and the wars and pointed out that the deficit would rise immensely were right; the neocons were wrong.

Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti

Originally Posted By: Lilo
Why was there not an explosion of demand, investment and hiring this year when the estate tax is zero?
In addition to the factors I mentioned above, all of the markets are quagmired right now because of the literally THOUSANDS of regulatory costs that are set to take place under the Obama administration. Hiring markets, financial markets, housing markets, all of them are stagnant right now in anticipation of these astronomical rises in regulatory costs i.e universal healthcare program to name one of hundreds.


Again, Obama has only been around for just under two years. You would have to show why lower estate and income taxes didn't produce the growth that the right-wingers said they would. What the change in tax policies did do very effectively was increase the income and wealth at the top end and increase the level of poverty in the country and increase what's euphemistically referred to as "job flexibility". Wages and growth remained stagnant even as corporate profits increased dramatically. Returning top marginal rates to Clinton era levels isn't going to kill the economy. This debate was already held in 1993. We have the evidence.

Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti

Originally Posted By: Lilo
Less than 2% of tax returns reporting small business income are filed by individuals or couples in the top two income brackets. 98% of small business owners will be unaffected by the reversion back to Clinton era top personal income rates.
The problem is that taxpayers who make say 6 figures a year already pay so much in taxes as is when compared to the rest of the population.

Everywhere you hear stories of people who make say 500 thousand a year talking about how it's not worth the time to try and make more because it will simply be seized in taxes, and this was in the supposedly conservative Bush adminstration I'm talking about, the problem is even more compounded now when you add to this all of the regulatory costs that are set to be inacted by the Obama administration.

Small businesses face an annual regulatory cost of $7647 per employee and you can bet this number is about to go through the roof. I can have my accountant at your bedside in 20 minutes to show you line-by-line the increased regulatory costs facing my business if you'd like. ;))


I do happen to make six figures a year and I am not concerned about a modest increase in taxes-primarily because I am not yet in that top 2%. But even if I were I wouldn't be concerned about going from 36% to 39%. The problem with this economy is simply not something which can be solved via supply side bromides. The problem is lack of demand. Per CBO, tax cuts for high earners are the least effective way to stimulate the economy. Just about every reputable economist also concedes that point. The middle class and working class are what drives the economy. If these people don't have secure jobs and good wages, things stagnate.

Nobody LIKES paying taxes. It has been my experience that the more some people make, the more they complain. But their complaints are not in and of themselves evidence that a progressive income tax system is a bad idea. But as shown, the overwhelming majority of small business owners will be unaffected by reversion to older tax rates.

Tax cuts for high earners are also one of the most effective ways to increase the deficit but usually all the deficit hawks grow rather silent about that. Supply side tax cuts and excessive deregulation of financial markets played a significant role in bringing us to the brink of disaster. Now is certainly not the time to repeat past mistakes. Even someone as right-wing as Greenspan says those tax cuts should expire.

So while the decision on whether to extend the tax cuts will have a lasting impact on the deficit and on how the nation’s tax burden is distributed, economists and tax experts say it is unlikely to offer much immediate relief for high unemployment and sluggish growth.

“It may have some small impact along the margins, but firms don’t hire based on tax breaks; they hire based on demand,” said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. “So a lot of the tax breaks are likely to be rewarding people and companies for what they were going to do anyway
.”


Tax Cuts: Good Politics , Poor Stimulus


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.