Moe Greene really said a mouthful to Michael Corleone at that Vegas meeting:
1. admitted to slapping his brother around,
2. saying he could talk to Barzini and still keep the hotel
3. insulting Michael as a baby

So, was Moe Greene considered a dead man regardless? OR...had he NOT shot off his mouth, and tried to politic a deal, do you think he could have survived?

Slapping around a Corleone IN PUBLIC was the beginning of the end for Moe.

In the book, Mike has Neri at the meeting and it's implied that Neri is studying Moe's face so that he'll remember it for a later date.


Muscling Moe out of his own hotel was just a pre text. Everyone knew he would refuse.

It was indeed Moe's big mouth that made him a dead man. But he was probably killed as a precaution anyway as everyone knew that Moe's ego would not accept the humiliation of getting moved out by the Corleones. And he ofcourse already aligned himself with Barzini.

Michael's objective was to call in Moe's debt to the Corleones (they gave him a "big chunk of money" to finish his hotel), and to plant a major stake in Nevada. Had Moe accepted Michael's offer with no protest, I think Michael would have let him survive in the interest of avoiding violence that might have impinged on his upcoming campaign to look "respectable." But it was Moe's refusal that gave Michael no choice but to kill him. If Moe had caved with no protest, Michael would appear to the others in Vegas as a man to be feared. Since Moe didn't cave, Michael had to kill him--and then the others would fear him.

"I got Moe Greene mugged and numbered up here."

Exactly. Vito told Michael that he would be invited to a meeting and then killed. Because Moe told Michael "I tocked to Barzini. I can make the deal with him, and still keep my hotel!", Michael had reason to consider Moe part of the plot to kill him and to view him as a mortal threat. Remember that Moe, like his real life counterpart Bugsy Siegel, was himself a gangster--to Michael he said: "I made my bones when you were going out with cheerleaders."

This is why Hyman Roth's speech in Part II, where he discusses Moe's death and displays obvious anger toward Michael for having caused it, rings rather hollow to me. If Moe's and Michael's positions had been reversed, Moe would have had Michael killed--and so would Roth in the same situation. Michael may not have been justified in killing Moe in the eyes of the law, but he certainly was by the accepted standards of the world these people lived in. Moe was certainly not some innocent victim.

Haven't read the novel in a while but if Moe got hit in Vegas, wouldn't that have violated the no violence rule regarding Las Vegas.

Was he hit in Los Angeles or Vegas?

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I believe the novel states it is Vegas, but I'm not really sure.

Interesting that Moe gave away Barzini as the power in New York when Barzini was trying to trick the Corleones into thinking it was Tatt.

Michael took a calculated risk that Moe Greene would not tke vengence.

Didn't Michael seize control over Moe's casino/hotel? I thought that was why he had him murdered, although I'm not sure how Moe's death opened up the opportunity. Also consider that Moe had a frontman, that probably factors into the equation.

And what reason does Moe have to be part of the plot?

He was hit in Hollywood.

With Moe dead, his ownership would pass to who ever was strong enough totake it, front man or not.

Because of Michael's interest in the casino--remember Moe said the if he dealt with Barzini he wouldn't have to give up the hotel.

I think Barzini only tricked the Corleones before the meeting of the families. After the meeting, it was clear to everyone that Barzini was the new top dog and I don't think he would still pretend otherwise. Tessio even mentioned that Barzini's men were taking over his turf which meant that Barzini wasn't secretly moving against them anymore.

By then, it were the Corleones themselves who were pretending to be weak. Michael denied Tessio and Clemenza to recruit more men so that Barzini and Tattaglia would think Michael would no longer be a threat, which was exactly what Michael wanted so he could carry out his plan by eliminating them.

How would Vito have handled the Moe situation.
Michael behaves pretty arrogantly. Look how he says casually: "The Corleone family will buy you out", fumbling with his lighter. My guess: Vito would have been more polite.
On the other hand, Michael's approach might have been a deliberate provocation to see if Moe loses control and says something he wouldn't say easily in a smooth conversation. And that's what he did in the end: "I tawked to Barzini."

I wonder if Moe was blowing smoke when he said he could make a deal Why would Barzini show such generosity? Maybe he was just playing Mike to make him think Barzini, and as we later find out, Roth,were his allies.

As Mike told Tom: "You're not a wartime Consiglieri, Tom. Things may get rough with the move we're trying."

As the quote above points out, neither Vito or Mike were under any illusions. They wanted Moe's casino (which, by the way, they owned part of) one way or the other. Mike didn't mince words. He was going to get the casino one way or the other. So, his words to Moe were straightforward.

As far as Moe and Barzini go, sure Moe knew what the Corleones intentions were and he was looking for allies. Why not Barzini?

Funny how similar the Moe Greene/Ben Siegel comparisons are:

01: both jewish names
02: both killed outside of Vegas
03: both shot in the eye

They sure weren't discreet

How do we know that about Moe Greene?

If I'm not mistaken, Cici shot him. Cici turned up later that day at the Mall, searching Tessio for weapons. The novel states that Moe was killed "at the home of his Hollywood mistress," where Siegel was killed.

TB, there's nothing in the film to indicate who murdered Moe. However, in the novel it states that Neri did not reappear in NY until a month after Moe was Murdered.

Ever wonder what happened to the dude that was giving Moe his spa treatment? Wonder if he was spared or was an off-camera civilian victim?

No, Cicci killed Stracci or Cuneo in the revolving door.

I think he might have killed both Moe and Cuneo.

Why Moe?

I believed in a lot that he said but he said it to the wrong person at the wrong time.

He was screwed either which way he went.

Barzini, or being associated with him was the end for Moe.

Moe should have played his card out a little more objectivly and seen what happened before he went off the deep end.

Michael definatly saw this as an insult and that was not good for Moe. Plus he slapped Fredo around.

Moe thought he was untouchable because he invented Las Vegas. As spin off of Bugsy obviously.

You have to understand, that men like this, are kings of their domains. They dont see a threat the way you and I might. They only see potential threats as obstacles, while they reign as goads on Earth. That is the life.

And that is why is it difficult for a civilian to understand or to associate with men of this stature. They hold court like the kings of old, where a slip of a word, a wrong gesture, spells life and death.