[/QB][/QUOTE]Exactly. You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head. God gave us free will, God created us... So, if the Bible says that it's a sin, but also gives us free will... Isn't that a CONTRADICTION? And even so, if it's genetic, GOD DID IT. So why'd he shun those who he made that way? I am Catholic, and I believe in God, but I'm really not religious... Because, I have now seen how contradictionary the Bible truely is. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I dont think u can call yourself a catholic if you dont believe what they teach. The bible is not contradictory. God gave us a free will so we can choose right or wrong not so we can do whatever we want and get away with it. So it seems like you are saying we could kill but since we have a free will its ok.

Catholic Teachings and Homosexuality

http://www.rcpolitics.org.uk/teachings/homosexuality.htm

Homosexuality
A distinction must be made between tendency and act. Having a tendency or predisposition to behave in a certain way does not justify giving expression to it. For example, anger: I am not entitled to vent my anger as and when I please simply because I have that tendency. The same principle applies to homosexual sex.

Homosexual sex can never be procreative. Sex which divorces the loving, affirmative aspect from the procreative aspect converts such intercourse into an end in itself. In this respect, the Church does not apply different standards to single people of either sexual orientation: The natural context
for sex is within marriage, always open to new life.

One can love another person of the same sex very deeply without having sex; in fact, there are many ways of expressing one's love that do not involve sex at all. Celibacy, for instance, calls both homosexuals and heterosexuals to a life of chastity. Not having sex does not lead to an inferior quality of life.

One of the characteristics of the emergence of 'gay culture' has been the encouragement of the high level of promiscuity which, for various reasons, is a feature of male homosexuality the world over. Long-term, stable and single partner homosexual partnerships, although they do exist, are comparatively rare: 74% of male homosexuals reported having more than 100 partners during their lifetime, 65% reported having sex only once with more than half their partners, 28% reported having more than 1000 partners, 10% of homosexuals and 28% of lesbians claim to be quasi married.(cf Bell & Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity among Men and Women, New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978: 308, 346)

In Denmark a form of homosexual marriage has been legalised since 1989. By 1995, fewer than 5% of Danish homosexuals had married and 28% of these ³marriages² had already ended in ³divorce² or death (Wockner; Advocate; 726 4 Feb. 1997: 26)

Human beings are not defined by their sexual orientation. Homosexual people, as human beings, have the same rights as others - including that of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity.

The Church is compassionate to people with this tendency and recognises the considerable numbers who struggle to come to terms with it. She seeks to bring the person to a greater fulfilment and healing, and a more profound understanding of the self. ³Homosexual activity prevents one's own fulfilment and happiness by acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church, in rejecting erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit but rather defends personal freedom and dignity realistically and authentically understood.² (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons, 1986)

GP -- VERY GOOD! You are excellent. That post pretty much sums up my entire beliefs.

OS -- You prove your idiocy every time you post. My view is that I can be Catholic, and believe in God, but not go by EVERYTHING the Bible says. I can have my own views and not be a slave to the Bible -- guess what that's called? FREE WILL... Just like God says. Did you comprehend when I said that earlier? I guess not.

And here you go again saying homosexuality is wrong. I already explained myself about this about a hundred times. There's NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. Treat people with a little more respect. We can choose to do whatever we'd like.

And no, you can't go out and kill someone because of free will. If you were serious about that, you're truely stupid. If you were being sarcastic -- that was equally as stupid. If you use your free will to KILL someone, and take a life, and CAUSE HARM to someone, that's when it's wrong. But homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone.

JJ -- I'm not even gonna read that. I'm sick of all this "homosexuality is wrong" Bible bullshit.

Every time you post you prove your arrogance. I dont know what kind of God you have but it is not the God catholics or any other christian has. There are certain things you must be believe to be a catholic and other donomination. What have i said thats so stupid? It is the same idea to what you said exaggerated but the same idea. Maybe porn would be a better example, unless of course you also think thats ok. I went to catholic school and learned alot about their beliefs and you have not shown any of it. Just because you may of gone to that church once doesnt mean that you are one.

I never said He destroyed a town. SCake said that and I never heard of it. SCake, where does it say this?

Vercetti said: ^

I never directed that particular comment at you? Do you notice the space between the posted thoughts? Try Genisis or Exodus Vercetti. I'm sure you'll find it there.

God, also rained fire from the sky to destroy two villages. Killed the first born of every non-hebrew family or any family who hadn't any lamb blood on their door.

JoltinJoe said the follwoing:
"My God flooded the Middle East for 40 days. He killed lots of people and animals. Yet, I still fully believe in him, and worship him."

Joke? If not, it shows; the human being you are and your intelligence level. Would you worship him if he burnt your family and flooded your house? If not, you're selfish, and that's also a sin. According to the bible a sin is a sin and that would be as wrong as condemning homosexuality, or what you so fear, being a homosexual or a bisexual.

Guineapig.

I was reluctant to read that article, but it's actually fairly compassionate. So much for the fire and brimstones, huh, Vercetti?

I guess that's irrelevant, as I and my family do our best to be holy and try to be the best people we can be.

Geoff, I thought the same thing. I'm a Catholic, and I don't have a problem with homosexuals at all.

EDIT- GP, it doesn't just show what kind of a person I am, it shows what kind of people ALL Christians, or any other group who believes that is.

This stuff is getting way off topic from the poll, but it's an interesting debate. However, since it's a religous debate, obviously, it'll never be resolved with one side saying "yeah, you're right, I never thought of that."

Vercetti et al. should be commended on their faith. I'm Christian, too (raised Catholic). However, what I don't like about some Christians is their judgement of others. Or telling people they're going to Hell for their actions.

WTF difference does it make to you what someone else wants or needs to do? How does it effect you, personally? What do you care if someone you don't even know goes to Hell? Your arguements/debates will not change anyone, so it's a waste of time.

Interesting, yes, but a waste of time.

But let me, too, waste a little space on this. Why the hell not?

From what I understand, I'm pretty sure a homosexual know's he's gay (an acceptible term, AL) very early in life. He or she may not comprehend what it means, but he/she may simply feel differently towards males and females. I would imagine it is a mixuture between nature and nurture, like pretty much everything else. It'd really be interesting to find out if there are known studies on this, where they've found pairs of twins with one being gay and the other not. That would be interesting as nature AND nurture would be the same, if they grew up together.

As a result (and probable) mixture of nature (born that way) and nurture (raised in a way that would make you more disposed to it), I don't see much "free will" involved in homosexuality. Why? Because it's probaby not a choice. People don't choose to be straight, and people don't choose to be gay. They just are one or the other, or both.

Is it a sin? Yeah, probably. So is masturbation, and 61% of the people here admit to doing that (and probably another 30% lied). Are masturbators going to Hell? I sure hope nope!

I believe in God. And I believe He is very forgiving. The man crucified beside him confessed to Jesus on the cross next to him, and he was forgiven and he went to Heaven. The other didn't, and he went to Hell. So that story goes, anyway.

Sure, God is not necessarily happy with promiscuity and orgies, etc. That's why he destroyed the two cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, because they'd have non-stop orgies (gay and straight, I'd imagine), even after knowing God's teachings. Now, luckily things aren't as bad these days (and hell, it may just be a parable anyway), since this was before Jesus' time, and He's forgiven us, and does forgive us, for our sins.

I don't want to preach here, or I'll sound like Vercetti. And I hate people who preach, so I won't. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. Just like this reply, it won't change anyone's opinions.

So I'll just leave it at this: Respect your neighbors for their differences. The differences in this word, be they age, gender, race, sexual preference, culture, whatever, are what makes this world so wonderful. And it's obviously the reason this poll was called the "Melting Pot" - because we're all different, and none better than another.

Amen.

EDIT- GP, it doesn't just show what kind of a person I am, it shows what kind of people ALL Christians, or any other group who believes that is.

^ No, it doesn't only show what kind of person you are but possibly what you are, and what you feel. There are different levels of believing something. Some Christians as it has been often seen here in religous debates may disagree with some beliefs of the church.

I'm sorry I forgot the story but I am very tired today. Lets put this for it. The Bible

BIBLE = written by followers and friends of JESUS CHRIST.

JESUS CHRIST = GOD in the form of human.

Now if you believe in God, why do you have no care for everything He wants? Because it makes you feel like a slave? No. Not a day in my life have I felt restricted. I feel very good that I have been given life. He gave usl ife, everything we have and we cannot just obey [for those who believe] 10 commandments? Sure, some have more meaning that you must think about ex.

5. "Thou shalt not kill." - this commandment obviously means do not murder, BUT it also means do not kill one's spirit. [making fun of one, etc.]. But do not tell me, "Your discriminating gays and lesbians." Because I am not doing that.

I denounce homosexuality whether its men or women doing it. I do not denounce the person committing it. Hell, I know a few gays and I do not isolate myself from them or make fun of them, but I do not find what they are doing wrong. PERIOD. I feel I have gotten everything I had to say said.

Now THAT is better, Vercetti... you not finding what they are doing to be wrong. Cool. There's hope for you yet!

P.S. Thou shalt not covet thy same-sex neighbor is not one of the Ten Commandments...

I just skimmed through the dozens of posts that have been, err, posted, since I last read from this site.

Anton--To You I scream 'IDIOT'. I'm sorry, but you are the biggest dumbass I've ever heard of. You totally believe in freedom of speech when it applies to you, but the moment someone disagrees with you, you shout slander at them and tell them how horribly wrong they are. I think I'm right, and, I am. I have my proof. End of Story.


Lombardi--You're cute and all, but you made me mad. Same applies for you, that I said for Anton.
Freedom Of Speech until someone disagrees.

Vercetti--Um, yeah, you agreed with me for the most part, so you're still cool.

Homosexual Gene? What Darwin Theory-Believin'-dumbass came up with that one? Ha Ha...what a crock of shit.

5. "Thou shalt not kill." - this commandment obviously means do not murder, BUT it also means do not kill one's spirit. [making fun of one, etc.]. But do not tell me, "Your discriminating gays and lesbians." Because I am not doing that.

^ Taken out of Vercetti's previous post.

Where the fuck did you get that interpretation of "thou shalt not kill"?

A spirit lives inside the soul, and the soul can never be killed supposedly.

Killing ones spirit. This has acually happened to me. I used to be picked on when I was younger and I hated it and it made me think I was the problem. I used to acually hate myself and my spirit was deluded. I have come a long way from then but still, it is something that happens to many and that is what killing of spirit is. But that doesn't mean that one cannot heal from that, I have.

Anton--To You I scream 'IDIOT'. I'm sorry, but you are the biggest dumbass I've ever heard of. You totally believe in freedom of speech when it applies to you, but the moment someone disagrees with you, you shout slander at them and tell them how horribly wrong they are. I think I'm right, and, I am. I have my proof. End of Story.

^ posted by SC2.

SCake, you are just being arrogant for saying that. Anton is very intelligent and maybe more then you [at least history wise].

Yeah, getting picked on is not a fun thing. I remember this one time when I was little some man was making ugly comments towards me because he wasn't quite sure what I was(nationality) but he knew I wasn't 'white' so I guess he thought I was contagious or something to 'stay away from'.

I don't get picked on, but if sexual harassment counts, I have gotten mine and many others fair share. This drunk man in the grocery store once stopped in the middle of the isle and said very loudly 'GODDAMN, you fine'. The embarassing part was that my mom and friend were with me.

The dude is a fucking atheist so he doesn't even believe the 'history' of the Bible, Jesus, or any of that stuff that happened. YES, I am VERY arrogant. I have more self-confidence that probably anyone on this board. Is that ANY of your business? Hell No.

But picking on Anton is -- you, too, Vercetti...

So, no comments on my long post?

So what if he is an atheist? At least he is not Mistersixer, who was an atheist who said "F Jesus" and totally disrespected other religions. At least Anton has the kindness to be respectful to other religions.

I personally try not to get too deep into religion at all so I guess you could say im not very religious. I like to beleive there is a God above, but i question if that is because I've been brought up to beleive so by everyone else in society, yet I dont like claiming anything such as Jewish, Catholic, Christian, Athiest, etc. I like to just say I simply beleive that there is a God and he or she is a very forgiving being that knows who to forgive and knows who not to forgive based on "gods" opinion. I kind of hope there isnt a heaven or hell whether there is a god or not because I'd much rather die and be gone for good like I was before being born than be put somewhere for the rest of eternity, unless it was heaven but I mean even then, who really knows what heavens like if it exist? and Hell....jeez id sure hate to be stuck there for an eternity. ETERNITY means FOREVER...think about that real long and hard and it'll scare the shit out of you. At least it scares me. I've seen too many people kill in the name of god...fight over religion and whatnot to become fully into religion as a whole. Therefore I just try not to think too hard about it.

Yes, good work grasshopper.
You pretty much summed it and no, to my knowledge maturbation is not a mortal sin, so I think we are safe. Uzto doesn't think its a sin but he's just a "Lobster boy" in SB's words.

I guess that's irrelevant, as I and my family do our best to be holy and try to be the best people we can be.

^ posted by Joltin.

I shouldn't really be my fault if you don't see the clear point my reply states. After all you've been proving to have a blurry vision to opposing opinions. It's not irrelevant if you don't give a fuck about those victims who died because they did something god disagreed with. That would make you apathetic and selfish. What if you fail at being the best you could be? And god flooded your house and killed off your family?

Anybody got a knife? I want to cut through the hate and misinterpritaions in this post. So much anger. Please, everybody, take it easy. Like I said before, opinions are opinions, but when you bite other peoples heads off for communicating thier ideas, then all hope for anything is lost.

This is, again, for no one in particular and I'm just trying to stop a potential war. If it is just fun chat, then excuse my butting in.

OMG,You mean you MASTURBATE, Vercetti? No Way! It is a sin, after all. ::Gasps::
I don't think it is THAT big of a deal, but I do think that using vegetables & battery-operated objects is taking it too far. that, of course, on;y applies to us girls. Guys go 'au natural'.
I bet if a guy EVER answers that he has never done that, he is lying out of his asshole. It is like a bad flu. It gets passed around to everyone(guys) and they ALL end up doing it.

but he knew I wasn't 'white' so I guess he thought I was contagious or something to 'stay away from'.

^ Posted by dear SC2.

In your picture you looked pretty damn fucking white to me..

Yes SC2. A hand or a finger [in a women's case I hope ] is enough. Just kidding. I don't choke my chicken. Its just a kiddy version to get the pleasure of sex without acually having it

You must not have read it then, Vercetti, cuz it wasn't in agreement with your opinion. Or did it change your opinion on the matter? I doubt that...

And who you calling a grasshopper, you little pelican?

Damn, Capo was right, you laught your ass off after reading that and looking at that avatar. I am a pelican? No, I believe the title Uz gave me was "Weasel".

If everyone is here go to the chatroom.

I have no 'white' (however you want to classify that) in me. My mom is from Puerto Rico and my dad's parents are from Italy (of course making him Italian, but he was born here in NY). I am pretty f*cking dark. That picture is nothing compared to when I was little. I looked like I played out in the sun too long and got burnt to a crisp. I was freaking dark. Now, I am pretty dark. If you look at my picture in the 'Mama Corleone' thread(same as my avatar) then you can see that I was dark. But I am a few shades darker than that now. So you would probably NOT call me white if you saw me.