1 registered members (Liggio),
109
guests, and 9
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics42,954
Posts1,073,780
Members10,349
|
Most Online1,100 Jun 10th, 2024
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: Danito]
#600646
04/23/11 01:00 PM
04/23/11 01:00 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
|
1) ...Anyway, it seems to me, that again we split in to parties: One tries to find holes in the script. The other one tries to defend it against all improbabilities. If one wants to find holes in the script, that isn't very difficult to do. You can come across several without even trying. It's when some try to examine every word of every scene with a fine-toothed comb, and/or find justification for EVERY hole, no matter how unexplainable...that we are venturing a bit far out into the stratosphere.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: olivant]
#600649
04/23/11 01:31 PM
04/23/11 01:31 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
|
...Kind of like Birthers. Kind've, yes! Both groups insist upon walking down a road that leads to nowhere.
Last edited by AppleOnYa; 04/23/11 01:32 PM.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: AppleOnYa]
#600965
04/26/11 11:17 AM
04/26/11 11:17 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
|
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
|
Michael told Fredo his plan because he probably had a tail on Fredo to see if Fredo would go to Roth with it. It would also serve to scare th hell out of Fredo, and maybe Michael wanted to see Fredo's reaction. In any case, it is clear that after the Michael-Fredo scene, things between Michael and Roth had soured to the point that Michael and Roth were sending each other signals that they were not allies at all. It wa after th encounter with Fredo that michael demanded to know from Roth who gave the order to kill Pentangeli, and Roth's ominous statement that he was going to take a nap, and when he woke up if the monet was on the table he had a partner, but if it was not on the table, he did not.
As for the bit about Tom knowhing Ola from the "old days," I always thought it implausible that Fredo didn't know Ola from all the time he spent in Vagas with Moe Green, who was Roth's protoge.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: dontomasso]
#601043
04/26/11 08:22 PM
04/26/11 08:22 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,632 AZ
Turnbull
OP
|
OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,632
AZ
|
Michael told Fredo his plan because he probably had a tail on Fredo to see if Fredo would go to Roth with it. It would also serve to scare th hell out of Fredo, and maybe Michael wanted to see Fredo's reaction. In any case, it is clear that after the Michael-Fredo scene, things between Michael and Roth had soured to the point that Michael and Roth were sending each other signals that they were not allies at all. It wa after th encounter with Fredo that michael demanded to know from Roth who gave the order to kill Pentangeli, and Roth's ominous statement that he was going to take a nap, and when he woke up if the monet was on the table he had a partner, but if it was not on the table, he did not.
It was one of the most brilliant scenes in the Trilogy. Each knew what the other was up to, but both were hanging tough for their objectives: Michael to find the traitor, Roth to get the $2 million. Plus Roth's soliloquey...
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: Turnbull]
#601124
04/27/11 02:01 PM
04/27/11 02:01 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
|
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
|
Michael told Fredo his plan because he probably had a tail on Fredo to see if Fredo would go to Roth with it. It would also serve to scare th hell out of Fredo, and maybe Michael wanted to see Fredo's reaction. In any case, it is clear that after the Michael-Fredo scene, things between Michael and Roth had soured to the point that Michael and Roth were sending each other signals that they were not allies at all. It wa after th encounter with Fredo that michael demanded to know from Roth who gave the order to kill Pentangeli, and Roth's ominous statement that he was going to take a nap, and when he woke up if the monet was on the table he had a partner, but if it was not on the table, he did not.
It was one of the most brilliant scenes in the Trilogy. Each knew what the other was up to, but both were hanging tough for their objectives: Michael to find the traitor, Roth to get the $2 million. Plus Roth's soliloquey... So maybe Michael was using Fredo to send a message to Roth?
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: olivant]
#601200
04/28/11 07:55 AM
04/28/11 07:55 AM
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
|
TB and DT, I don't understand why Michael would risk his life by revealing any of his plans in an environment run by a dictator, where he had few resources to call on, but where his enemy had an ally who commanded the resources of a government. Agreed. I don't see any logical way that Michael telling Fredo can be reconciled with Michael suspecting Fredo.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: Turnbull]
#602133
05/05/11 07:54 AM
05/05/11 07:54 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
|
The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
|
For me, I believe that Mike didn't beleive Fredo was the traitor until Superman, his utter abhorrence when he hears Fredo say take Ola took him to see the show is far to agonised for someone who suspected all along.
I think he tells Fredo because he's his brother, that telling him can't do any harm and it allows him to share what he knows with someone he thought loved him. You can see at the start 'I can't control her Mikey' 'You're my brother Fredo, you don't have to apologise to me' that there is a bond between the two, at least on Michael's part.
If he suspected Fredo, he'd have told Tom he suspected Fredo when they talk after the shooting, only Rocco and Neri's name were mentioned, not Fredo's. Tom being the only man Michael can absolutely trust would be informed would he not?
He couldn't rule it out of course, but I think Fredo was last on his list of suspects.
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: The Hollywood Finochio]
#602202
05/05/11 08:19 PM
05/05/11 08:19 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,632 AZ
Turnbull
OP
|
OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,632
AZ
|
I think he tells Fredo because he's his brother, that telling him can't do any harm and it allows him to share what he knows with someone he thought loved him. You can see at the start 'I can't control her Mikey' 'You're my brother Fredo, you don't have to apologise to me' that there is a bond between the two, at least on Michael's part. That is just about the only credible explanation, although it's a long stretch. Michael was hardly the sentimental type, and, since Michael told Tom that Fredo was "weak and stupid, and this is life and death," the same logic would have led Michael not to trust Fredo with his Roth plan, if for no other reason than Fredo could have stupidly blurted it out (as he stupidly blurted out that he and Ola had been to the Superman show). If he suspected Fredo, he'd have told Tom he suspected Fredo when they talk after the shooting, only Rocco and Neri's name were mentioned, not Fredo's. Tom being the only man Michael can absolutely trust would be informed would he not?
He couldn't rule it out of course, but I think Fredo was last on his list of suspects. Again, by telling Tom that Fredo was "weak and stupid," he was telling Tom that Fredo couldn't be trusted. At that point I think he meant trusted to run the family in his absence. So, I agree with you: at that point Michael didn't think Fredo had an active role in the shooting. But I think Michael wasn't ruling out Fredo having done something inadvertently through his own carelessness and stupidity.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: Turnbull]
#602219
05/06/11 06:04 AM
05/06/11 06:04 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
|
The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
|
So if he suspected Fredo just a little bit, why didnt he latch upon what Fredo said at the cafe
Fredo - I was mad at you.... Mike - What? What do you mean? Fredo - Oh nothing Mike - Come on Fredo, what Fredo - Well...when I said I didnt know Ola, I wasnt being honest, because I'm scared of what will happen when you find out Mike - Found out what Fredo - I told Ola things about you I shouldn't have, I'm so sorry Mikey, its my fault you got hit, but I SWEAR I didnt know it was going to be a hit.
I dunno, something like that. Mike was so gone though, he would have killed Freddie even if he confessed in the fashion seen above
Last edited by The Hollywood Finochio; 05/06/11 06:05 AM.
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: olivant]
#602241
05/06/11 10:22 AM
05/06/11 10:22 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
|
The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
|
I always felt it was harsh of Michael to refer to Fredo as stupid to Tom who grew up with Fredo the same as he did, its not like he needs to be told about Fredo. Weak maybe, but Stupid, harsh. Fredo wasn't stupid in my view, just weak.
Last edited by The Hollywood Finochio; 05/06/11 10:23 AM.
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
|
|
|
Re: Why tell Fredo?
[Re: Turnbull]
#602275
05/06/11 04:41 PM
05/06/11 04:41 PM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
|
The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
|
Yeah, he tries his best to look after him, but Mike is out control by the end, he could have found himself killed quite easily.
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
|
|
|
|