What events are there that cosa nostra has had wars with black organized and or different ethnic organized crime.

Is there still black organized crime today similar like cosa nostra.

Blacks are more violent, the whole family including grandmothers sell drugs...especially with prescription pills

Nicky Barnes created in the 70s ,The Council included seven people:

Leroy Barnes,Joseph "Jazz" Hayden,Wallace Rice,Thomas "Gaps" Foreman,Ishmael Muhammed,Frank James,Guy Fisher. The seven man organization was modeled after the Italian mob families. The Council settled disputes, handled distribution problems and other drug related issues.And also Frank Lucas used her cousin like street capos for sell the heroin.

Not as organized or disciplined. Giancana and the Outfit went to war with Tough Teddy when they stole the numbers racket from the blacks. Giancana was sorry that he had to kill Tough Teddy because he admired him for not backing down.

Blacks and Italians shared the numbers business in Harlem from as far back as the '30s. The truth is, the Italians couldn't have run it at all without using black middlemen, like Bumpy Johnson. Eventually, as the black population exploded in Harlem and numbers runners became more and more independent, they lost their need for (and fear of) the Italians all together, and went out on their own.

Why do you suppose Giancana and company were able to steal away and control the Chicago numbers racket ? What was different in Chicago than in NY? The blacks still greatly outnumbered Italians in Chicago too.

The Outfit took over the black numbers operations on Chicago's south side back in the 1950's. Guys like Roe put up a fight but they couldn't stand up to the mob's political clout and street muscle at the time.

In New York, Dutch Schultz was the first to move in on the black numbers rackets in Harlem. After he was killed, the Italians (Genovese and Luccheses) took over. Guys like Bumpy Johnson were the middlemen who took bets directly from the people in the black communities. But they had to use the mob's banks.

If you read former NYPD Remo Franceschini's autobiography, he talks about how the Italians still had overall control of the numbers racket as late as the 1970's. It was in the 1980's that there seemed to be less contact with the mob and the blacks in the numbers racket. The mob was switching more to sports betting anyway, which typically served a more white clientele. Meanwhile, where the numbers racket became the biggest was in the Spanish areas.

The books "Kill The Dutchman" by Paul Sann and "Gangsters of Harlem" by Ron Chepesiuk are pretty good resources.

Right. There is a reason that Mike Coppolla was telling Bumpy Johnson what to do and not the other way around. A big part of that was a greater organized capacity for violence.

Everything quoted here is wrong and people should listen to what Ivy says. He actually does researche, reads books and knows his subject before he types.

DickNose earned himself another vacation from the boards for another crude, rude and just plain stupid racist comment.

Maybe we're expecting too much from someone who would call himself, "DickNose".

Excuse me, Mussolini? And just who the fuck are you?

You're barely literate. You post nonsense. And you know next to nothing about American organized crime. I respect IvyLeague and vice versa. I'm sure that if you asked him, he'd tell you that I've already forgotten more about the topic than you'll ever know.

And just what was the problem with my synopsis? Does it trouble you that black people were in business with Italians? Are you a revisionist? Do you even know what revisionist means?


That's a fair point, Ivy. But it should be mentioned that it was in the early 1980's that the NY Lottery introduced their daily number. It's no coincidence that there was a huge decline in playing street numbers at that time.

Ivy---

I read Franceschini's book many years ago. Probably back in '93 or '94. I thought it was well written, but like any book written by an ex-cop, a bit self-serving and grandiose.

On the subject of the Harlem numbers racket, check out "Playing the Numbers," by Shane White, Stephen Garton, Dr. Stephen Robertson and Graham White. I read it last year and found it very informative.

Yeah, the legal state lotteries definitely took a lot of business away from the illegal numbers racket. What's left of it today, at least as far as the mob is concerned, seems to be basically an appendage to bookmaking.

By the way, didn't the New York lotto start in the late 1960's? Was it something different then the daily number then?

Believe the game that started in the '60's was different, like a weekly jackpot or something. The actual daily "pick 3" was introduced in the '80's. Wiseguys responded to the new competition from Uncle Sam by offering better odds, but it still put a huge dent into the numbers racket.

That's right, Lefty. The "sweepstakes" type of jackpot began in '67 or '68. But the daily number didn't commence until the early '80s.

LOL,I see I hit a nerve and got your panties in a knot eh? I am far more educated than you ever will be son. Care to post credentials and family back groud?


Franceschini's book contradicts everything you say, and excuse me for believing the word of a guy who spent a career fighting organized crime over some random internet poster who brags about how much they know about OC. Sure you probably do know more about the subject of OC than me but I highly doubt you have a higher education than I do and why don't you post a source to your synopsis? Then perhaps your claims will have more validity. Furthermore as I pointed out the Outfit stole the number racket from the Blacks in Chicago. Are you trying to tell us the Outfit was more savvy than the NY families? Because according to your synopsis they blacks were independent of the Italians by the 40's in NY.

Let's stop this pissing contest before it really gets going. Take it off the boards, guys.

musssolini i`m with u 1000 percent Ivyleague is so arogant he starts his post on chicago federal corruption with UH`no then gives his opinion like he knows it all when he believes some stuff that is akin to a pyramid scheme but i cant say it it violates religious impropriaty

Well I'm glad that you're with me as a fellow Canadian but my hostility was directed at Pizzaguy not Ivy and if you read Ivy's posts you will find he back most of them up with reliable sources. You may not agree with his opinions on some things but he is very knowledgeable and usually gives a source for his info.

Ontario ~ take your opinions about other members off the boards.

Here's my take on the differences between the Cosa Nostra and black organized crime.

The Italians were way more organized, I think we can agree with that. I believe this was due to several reasons. First, the Italians often had close knit, extended family loyalties that reached back into the old country and held tremendous weight in their community. American blacks didn't have that kind of clan organization because their families were torn apart during slavery, and black social organization was limited to about 150 years of development. Also, Italians were white and thus had more freedom to congregate and organize. Meanwhile, American society has not been kind to attempts by black Americans to congregate and organize in any significant fashion. If Black people ever did put together anything big enough to catch whitey's attention, it would invariably get suppressed.

To summarize, I think that organization is the central issue here. As far as black organizations actually battling the mafia openly, it didn't happen too much. As earlier posters said, the main conflicts took place over numbers (in the 1930s in NYC and the 40s in Chicago) and drugs (1970s in NYC, not sure about Chicago). One thing I would love to hear more about was the situation between blacks, latinos, and Mafiosos in Los Angeles during the 1970s, when the blacks and latinos experienced a huge ascendancy. Does anybody know if there was that kind of a conflict in LA in the 70s or 80s? It would be fascinating to know how the drug trade in that area first came under Latino control in the 1970s.

[quote=marty]Here's my take on the differences between the Cosa Nostra and black organized crime.

The Italians were way more organized, I think we can agree with that. I believe this was due to several reasons. First, the Italians often had close knit, extended family loyalties that reached back into the old country and held tremendous weight in their community. American blacks didn't have that kind of clan organization because their families were torn apart during slavery, and black social organization was limited to about 150 years of development. Also, Italians were white and thus had more freedom to congregate and organize. Meanwhile, American society has not been kind to attempts by black Americans to congregate and organize in any significant fashion. If Black people ever did put together anything big enough to catch whitey's attention, it would invariably get suppressed.

To summarize, I think that organization is the central issue here. As far as black organizations actually battling the mafia openly, it didn't happen too much. As earlier posters said, the main conflicts took place over numbers (in the 1930s in NYC and the 40s in Chicago) and drugs (1970s in NYC, not sure about Chicago). One thing I would love to hear more about was the situation between blacks, latinos, and Mafiosos in Los Angeles during the 1970s, when the blacks and latinos experienced a huge ascendancy. Does anybody know if there was that kind of a conflict in LA in the 70s or 80s? It would be fascinating to know how the drug trade in that area first came under Latino control in the 1970s. [/quote][i][/i]


I am also very interested in that topic. I know at one point Accardo claimed "hegomony" over LA but as far as I know they never had a very strong LCN presence and I don't think LCN ever controlled the drug trade in LA but I could be wrong.

Outside of the fictional account shown in the movie American Me, no. California has always been, relatively speaking, foreign country to the Mafia, being far removed as it is from their traditional power base. Even back in the day the families in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and San Jose were small potatoes. By the 1980's the San Francisco and San Jose families were all but gone and LA was more or less a crew even by that point. And you had individual mafiosi from other families back east floating around California. But there was never enough presence to where they would be fighting with the black and Hispanic groups over territory.

The CIA controlled crack distribution in LA in the 80`s and 90`s it was proven but bush sr pardoned all of them that`s why Freeway Ricky Ross had to be released from his life sentence no parole and is free today because his supplier danillo blandone was a CIA operative who wholesaled massive amounts of coke to be made into crack ricky ross was the first to cook a kilo in the microwave

I think the Los Angeles mafia was in the 1970s still strong enough to take on some of the street gangs, even the Mexican prison gangs, who were then not as powerful as they are now.

Even if they were, they never really had the much contact with them anyway.