But the logic you used - 'hey micheal is a murderer therefore there was no way he could have loved Tom' - is ridiculous.

Vito made the decision along with Micheal to demote Tom so how is that treating him better than Mike did?

And Fredo deserved to die. Sonny probably would have done the same thing in killing him, Vito perhaps not, but deep down would have agreed it was the right decision. Fredo nearly got Micheal and Kay killed, he deserved a similar fate.

Also the harshest words and closest thing to 'verbal abuse' spoken to Tom came from Sonny, not Micheal - 'father had Genco look what I got'.

Demoting Tom is not the issue. Treating him like brother and not questioning his loyalty is something mike doesn't seem to do. I mean its not like i'm making this shit up man lol. Its right there. To be fair i don't know what sonny would have done with Fredo but anybody with half a brain knows that fredo didn't want to harm his brother in any way. I don't think Sonny would have killed his own brother but to be fair i dont know I mean that not his character. Stupid? yes Ruthless? No. Look I know you obviously like Mike which you have a right to do but I still feel i'm being fair about the character

You seem to forget he apologized.

If Fredo did open the drapes, I fully understand he had to go.

One thing is for sure, Michael really had become a cold hearted bastard at the end of Part II. He treated Tom miserably when he questioned his loyalty and accused him of leaving the family. Tom is one of the most sympathic characters in the series and he deserved respect. Michael really went too far.

Ironically, both Michael and Tom are among my favorite characters of the series.

I think some of the moments you're referring to are overplayed. There are other reasons to explain those situations rather than 'Micheal resents Tom'.

The fact that he 'trusts Tom with the lives of my wife and children' and states 'you're the only one I can completely trust right now' also says a lot for me.

And this has nothing to do with 'liking or disliking' Micheal.

I didn't forget at all, he said what everyone was thinking and the damage was done.

I never said he resents tom. where are you getting that. I said that by Part II like someone has stated he was a cold hearted prick who didn't show compassion for anyone. also you seem to be "overplaying" the trust tom with my wife and kids" stuff. I mean the point of that was to make Tom think he has all the confidence and rust in him. So of course he is gonna say i trust him with his family. also Mike treats his wife and kids like shit pretty much so its doesn't really matter that much when i look back on it lol

While I agree it wasn't a good thing to say. I wouldn't say the damage was done. i nean Mike pretty much killed any belief Tom had about the Corleone family. Like he says to Frank at the end of Part II the Corleone was once a great thing but not anymore since mike took the throne

I share most of your sentiments but Micheal, at the time of questioning Tom's loyalty, was in a very vulnerable position.

His own blood brother had turned out to be a traitor who had nearly caused his death, his wife had left him and told him she aborted his son, Pentangelli had betrayed him and his mother had died. Combine this with all the pressures of being Don and you can begin to understand why he spoke to Tom as he did. It may not have been the right way to go about it but his paranoia was at peak levels at that moment.

But you gotta remember mike caused all of that. the whole point of the story was to show this guy's descent into darkness and how he pushes everyone away. I mean you reap what you sow

I happen to think theres a lot more depth to Micheals character/personality to you're suggesting but we're never going to agree.

You don't just trust anyone with your wife and kids and make them acting Don.

Mike 'caused' it?

Poor old Fredo, was 'stepped-over' so betrayed the family which nearly resulted in the death of his younger brother and wife, and the collapse of the family business that his father had worked his whole life to create. Micheal 'caused' that did he? Give me a break.


Fredo's jealousy towards Micheal far outweighs any jealousy/ressentment that Micheal may have had for Tom.

I agree with some of your points about Vito and Sonny but when it comes to Mike and tom or mikes personality i don't think i'm wrong since i look at the films and the book. It has nothing to do with any bias for the character its just fair and honest

I don't know man. This is getting a little silly now lol. I understand you like Mike but you don't eem to hold him accountable of anything

Difficult to hold him accountable for Fredo's actions, especially when Fredo's motives were as selfish and ego-centric as they were.

Can't blame his for his mothers death.

Can't really blame him for Frank's betrayal as it was engineered by Roth.

His wife leaving him? Ok I'd agree that probably was his fault (though he wouldnt have had the same problem with Appolonia) but having your child aborted behind your back is still not a nice experience and contributed to Mikes paranoia at the end of II.

Do you think Mike is a great guy?

Pretty good Crusher. The Trilogy is Michael's story. As far as trusting Tom goes after his murder attempt, at the time there was noone else Michael could turn to and he knew that Tom's loyalty was beyond reproach.

ya well most people agree but one person obviously thinks he knows everything even though it doesn't make sense lol

Whats the relevance of that question?

He's as good a guy as Vito. The reason's to dislike all of Vito, Micheal, Tom and Sonny are very similar in my opinion.

Lol, one person has obviously missed the point of a forum.

I guess to bust your balls LOL

Relax man its just a joke.

Hilarious.

Thanks i knew you would like it

Just saw this.

Micheal outsmarted Roth in the end.

Also, unless I'm severely mistaken, convincing Frank to kill himself had nothing to do with the possibility of Micheal being indicted again.

That's the beauty of the trilogy -- is that every scene has at least one line of dialog that could be taken different ways and examined for years to come.

True, it was revenge, plain and simple.