Yeah... the Patriarcas will still be around, but in the same way that Kansas City is still around. Maybe not quite that bad.

This has happened before with the Scarfo mob when Tommy Del and Leonetti, a captain and an underboss, flipped. It was pretty much a wipeout. Sure the family was still around afterwards, but it was very diminished and never really recovered. All you had left were old Bruno soldiers, complete morons like the Stanfa-ites, and the young relatives of convicted Scarfo underlings.

If this will be true...I wonder how will NYC react?

The Genoveses have a crew in Springfield and one in CT.
Even if is almost gone after Arrillotta and Tranghese flipped, there are still some guys around.

The Gambinos have a crew in CT as well.

Sooner or later, the Patriarca and Bruno families will be like how the Buffalo or Detroit families are now. Not quite as bad as Kansas City.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Genovese Springfield crew is decimated. Every known guy up there is either dead or in prison. The fact that they made a guy like Arillotta suggests it was slim pickings up there as far as manpower. People say, "There will always be gambling, etc. in Springfield." Well there's gambling in Arkansas too but the mob isn't there. It's a question of the family having the resources to move in again and if it's worth it at this point.

I'm also not sure the Genovese family has a standing crew in Connecticut. The only activity involving them in the state over the past decade was Ianniello controlling the trash business through James Galante. But, of course, Ianniello is based in NY.

The Gambino's still have a presence there but it also appears to be on the downswing. As time goes by, the radius of the mob's geographic influence becomes smaller.

What's your prediction?
10-15 years?
With no major busts...



After all, you gotta give'em credit...they're kinda cute

Detroit has more men than KC?

Of course, and they make a significant amount of cash.

KC is right at the bottom.

I think it will happen to the Patriarcas first, given that there always seems to be some kid in Philadelphia who pops up to fill any voids. The family is relatively youthful. The Patriarcas don't seem to have that so much.

Then again, maybe not, because even if the youthfulness factor is still around for Philadelphia wannabes, the attrition of talent will still be there.

Bear in mind that "kid" and "youthful" in the American Cosa Nostra context means "under 50".

It's possible with the double whammy of Rosetti and DeLuca flipping, the Patriarcas might end up being in even worse shape than Detroit and Buffalo. It might be a total wipeout. But there might be associates and lesser known soldiers that can fill the void. We'll see. <grabs popcorn>

By the way, who wants to be that there will be a domino effect of people flipping after Rosetti and DeLuca?

there is nothing left of any viable family/activity in buffalo

i have been going to school in the area for the past 5 years or so and there are barely if any italians around and the todaros are for the most part old as dirt, i know cause ive been to their pizzeria and seen them

buffalo is a HIGHLY depressed area with all kinds of flight (economic, business, brain drain, etc)

I've done the same thing but I only met Todaro Jr. His pizza business is so successful that he'd have to be crazy to bother with mob stuff anymore.



He was one of the very few whites I saw in the town, come to think of it. The neighborhood around La Nova seemed kinda run down when I was there.

yeah a while back their pizzeria was ranked the most successful/profitable independent pizzeria in the USA, ive heard stories of guys who are millionaires paying tons of money to have their pizza shipped out/flown to them

What do you mean no busts?



Yes, Detroit has a couple dozen and Kansas City has maybe half that.



By the time New England and Philadelphia become like Detroit and Buffalo are now, Detroit and Buffalo will be like Kansas City.

So you don't think the two of them flipping has the potential to reduce the Patriarcas to the handful-of-soldiers-left-glorified-crew status?

Really?
They would do that much damage?
I'm with you on Providence, but even Boston?

Man, who are these guys?!?


I mean with no MAJOR busts, few guys once in a while...you know, nothing historical.
How long do you give Philly & New England before they turn into Detroit?
And how long until Detroit turns into KC?

Oh, btw, I do consider Buffalo already a Kansas City.


Here's a question:

How can Detroit turn into KC if they keep being so low-key and not getting involved in nothing super serious besides gambling-shy-extortion and few legit biz?

I mean, the FBI managed to get rid of many of these families' members due to their involvment in racketeering, murders, bombings, violent power struggles, witness intimidation etc...

The Feds will not have enough stuff to put them away for 30 yrs like they used to (less long sentences, less rats).

Same thing with Philly.

New England had drugs involved (Rossetti) so it's different.

It's just sheer speculation on my part and I can't really comment on the situation authoritatively. Rosetti is a capo and acting consigliere, so he likely has a lot of dirt on a lot of people, and DeLuca could bring down everyone in Providence. The actual extent of they damage they inflict remains to be seen.

Generational attrition. There's not too many wannabe young Italians in the Detroit metro that could replenish the ranks. It WILL fade away eventually. It's only a matter of time.

A "handful-of-soldiers-left-glorified-crew" would be like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Tampa, or LA. So, no, not quite. They could definitely do a lot of damage though, particularly if they cause others to flip.

Will Limone go down? Was he just way too close to these two guys to escape unscathed? It doesn't seem likely. In fact, with DeLuca on the stand, it seems a foregone conclusion.

Any thoughts on likely contenders for a defacto "up" now that this administration is basically done?

so apparently a poster over in real deal who is in the "know" said that its official deluca is a rat and is is wpp, apparently he was wired for sound for a while, the next wave of indictments will target the mass/boston faction

they also talk about some guy called joseph ruggiero who might emerge in a leadership position in the aftermath

Yeah I saw that. Funnily enough there's a few differing opinions on the guy who supposedly went to Italy with Baby Shanks in '09, Joe Ruggiero. Opinion's ranging from force to brokester.

But yeah, DeLuca seems all but officially official at this point. The Feds have got some "made guys" set to testify.

One thing Ive wondered about the Federico, Quintana, Tortara and DeLuca induction ceremony. Being that it was literally completely captured by the Feds, a pretty major coup against LCN in general, what was the status of this ceremony in later years? I seem to remember reading it was considered null and void in some circles, is that right? Did these guys ever have to get "remade", as it were?

In fact the whole things kinda familiar. Ill have to hack through some archives.

Joseph Ruggerio...any more info on this guy?

Thanks for the post Dapper

I think you might be thinking of the George Fresolone induction ceremony; that was nullified. I haven't heard anything about the NE recorded ceremony being nullified.

Check Shawn D. Vetere account on FB.

Thanks Ivan. Maybe I did get the idea mixed up.

Ruggiero has a varying rep according to some micro/local opinions, but in the macro he's linked to Baby Shanks and WPRI identifies him as a memebr of NELCN. This is taken from the page;

“[G]overnment records confirm that he traveled to Italy for a week in July 2009 with [New England La Cosa Nostra] member Joseph Ruggiero, flying on [airline] Alitalia on July 17 and returning on July 24,” Lawson wrote. “According to an FBI confidential source, the purpose for this trip was for Manocchio to purchase property in Italy.”

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/target_12/inside_mafia/manocchio-bail-revised

A great chart made by a poster on Real Deal called Arm which has turned up here at different stages identifies him as an active soldier, aged 62 (at the time the chart was compiled, at least) It doesn't identify his crew affiliations, but considering his links to Manocchio, it would seem he was originally linked to the Providence factions and was later made under them.

While some sources claim him as being pretty well off financially, as mentioned, some guys seem to disregard any real influence.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regiona...&position=4

Darin Bufalino Chinese food fund raiser for legal defense.....oy vey

That the Same Vetere that was hooked up with Merlino?

Yup!
Vetere and Luisi are\were the Boston guys for Philly.
Vetere was released in 2006.
Any news if he's still active? He should, since that he's a reputed made guy.

Luisi is ejoiyng sunshine in North Eastern Idaho.
Here's a 2001 Citypaper article about him relocating to Philly.

Luisi was the guy that basically paid his way into hooking uo with Philly once he knew there was no chance he'd get made in Boston.

So what was the deal with Vinny 217? Who was he?