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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: Celebel]
#617439
10/13/11 12:22 PM
10/13/11 12:22 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
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I don't see how. Zaza considered him a punk and he wasn't a major earner either. Ofcourse Zasa considered him a punk, also a bastard. Michael considered Zasa a "small time enforcer", but that small time enforcer organized a killing spree that nearly got Michael killed. Zasa was obviously supported by Don Altobello and Lucchesi, but Vincent got support from Michael. Both Zasa and Vincent were pawns used by bigger players in a major chess game, almost like how it happens in real life.  Profaci also considered the Gallo brothers nothing more than small time hoodlums, but they gave him a pretty hard time. I'm not sure if Vincent wasn't a good earner. His did have his own club which looked pretty nice from the inside. Anyway, he was definitely nothing more than just a soldier when he was introduced. And of course, I don't buy Vincent being able to organize a murder spree in Europe either and on such on a short notice too. He probably never even left NY in his life before hooking up with Michael! Neri wouldn't be that much help either, he never operated in Europe. Don't forget that they got help from Calo and the Tommasino family. The Corleone family was the most dominant crime family in New York and maintained close ties to Sicily over the years. They were also doing business on a global scale. So I consider it plausible that they were able to do such things.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: DeathByClotheshanger]
#617554
10/14/11 11:17 AM
10/14/11 11:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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My memory is hazy...why did Michael punk Joey Zasa in AC? Because by then Michael knew that Zasa knew Michael was keeping him frim rising up in the commission.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: dontomasso]
#617562
10/14/11 12:02 PM
10/14/11 12:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Celebel
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 28
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Because by then Michael knew that Zasa knew Michael was keeping him frim rising up in the commission. Which was implausibly stupid. And what was Zaza saying about having worked very hard to guarantee everybody's profits? Did he provide security for Corleone casino operation? In this case, he kind of had the point and Michael stiffing him was a declaration of war. Of course, Zaza getting away with the helicopter massacre in a prominent location in 1979 (!) and Michael not being tied to it despite his checks being on all the bodies are huge plot-holes. Particularly since all Atobello and Lucchese had to do to stop Michael's bid for Immobiliare was to embroil him in a public scandal.
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: Celebel]
#617564
10/14/11 12:21 PM
10/14/11 12:21 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
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Of course, Zaza getting away with the helicopter massacre in a prominent location in 1979 (!) and Michael not being tied to it despite his checks being on all the bodies are huge plot-holes. Particularly since all Atobello and Lucchese had to do to stop Michael's bid for Immobiliare was to embroil him in a public scandal. I definitely agree. But if you pay attention to every possible plot hole or example of sloppy writing in Part III, you may go mad. The Godfather Part III was made by Coppola as he needed the money to save his studio (if it was't already bankrupt in the first place). So Paramount gave him an offer he coulnd't refuse. Puzo and Coppola asked Paramount for at least six months to write the screenplay. But as Paramount wanted a release before christmas they only got six weeks! That's why there are so many plot holes in the film.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#617585
10/14/11 02:27 PM
10/14/11 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831 New Market, MD
DeathByClotheshanger
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831
New Market, MD
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The plot holes cover themselves in mafia movies...the police didn't come after Michael because they were on the payroll.  I always thought Michael went out of his way to be very mean to Zasa and it was uncharacteristic, IMO. If Mikey didn't like you or think well about you, he killed you. Maybe this was him getting old, but overall, I never understood it. But that said I haven't watched III in a few years. It's time to dust them all off again. I think Michael should have avoided insulting Zasa and moving on with his life. He was retiring anyway. Why insult someone have to worry about them coming back at you?
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: DeathByClotheshanger]
#617597
10/14/11 03:17 PM
10/14/11 03:17 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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I always thought Michael went out of his way to be very mean to Zasa and it was uncharacteristic, IMO.
I think Michael should have avoided insulting Zasa and moving on with his life. He was retiring anyway. Why insult someone have to worry about them coming back at you? It probably started when Vincent accused Zasa of saying "fuck Michael Corleone". It didn't look like Zasa was showing much respect during that meeting either. Especially when he sat in Vito's old chair like he was the king himself. I always thought Michael installed Zasa purely as a figurehead. Michael considered Zasa small potatoes just as Pentangeli. Through those figureheads he could maintain his influence without getting the blame of being a mobster himself. Why would he otherwise stop Zasa from rising in the Commission.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#617604
10/14/11 04:32 PM
10/14/11 04:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Unlike Pentangeli, Zasa was really an enemy of Michael, and Michael was keeping him down with the commission. In fact Michael was not especially mean to Zasa.... instead he set a classic trap for him. When Vincent tld Michael that Zasa was going around saying "f*ck Michael Corleone," Michael asked Zasa if it was true, and Zasa said something like anyone who would say that is a dog....Michael then repeated this...he said yes such a man would be a dog....after which he told Vincent he had to apologize to Zasa. It was after that when Vincent told Michael Zasa knew Michael was holding him back when Michael then offered Vincnt the chance to work for him. When Vincent killed Zasa's henchmen in his apt. Michael was not pleased because they had knives and he used a gn. Then when Vincent killed Zasa, Michael was furious because he knew Zasa was acting on someone else's orders, and he was still unsure of who.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: dontomasso]
#617618
10/14/11 07:23 PM
10/14/11 07:23 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 3,568
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Then when Vincent killed Zasa, Michael was furious because he knew Zasa was acting on someone else's orders, and he was still unsure of who. Another implication that Altobello was a Corleone member. Would Zasa be a puppet for another crime boss while he himself wanted to become the most powerful one? Zasa was sort of a street boss or acting boss for the Corleones, although he probably thought of himself to be the boss. And the boss of what was once known as the most powerful family would never let himself be controlled by a rival mobster. My interpretation is that Altobello was a consigliere/mentor to Zasa.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: dontomasso]
#617742
10/16/11 06:39 AM
10/16/11 06:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Celebel
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 28
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In fact Michael was not especially mean to Zasa.... instead he set a classic trap for him. Why let Zaza know that Michael was on to him? What happened to keeping friends close and enemies closer? And when did Michael previously care what people called him behind his back as long as they did what he wanted? Not to mention, that if he depended on Zaza, then why undermine him before the Commission - something that was bound to come back to Zaza eventually. And if he didn't - why meddle at all? IMHO, this whole "dog" conversation was as out of character for the previously established Mike as was the gangster pinky ring that he sported in part III. It was something that a person who came up from the street and still cared about the street rep would concern himself with. Puzo and Coppola asked Paramount for at least six months to write the screenplay. But as Paramount wanted a release before christmas they only got six weeks! That's why there are so many plot holes in the film. I am not sure about that. Aren't screenplays often substantially re-written in a very short time anyway? IMHO, it was more Coppola's desire, once he succombed to the inducement, to go for not just one, but two cash-cow GF movies. I feel that the decisions that I dislike most about GF III are based on that  .
Last edited by Celebel; 10/16/11 06:47 AM.
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Re: Does anybody understand the Immobiliare deal?
[Re: Celebel]
#617749
10/16/11 10:09 AM
10/16/11 10:09 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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Why let Zaza know that Michael was on to him? What happened to keeping friends close and enemies closer? And when did Michael previously care what people called him behind his back as long as they did what he wanted? But that was just it, Zasa wasn't doing what he wanted. He was saying 'fuck Michael Corleone' and was dealing drugs in many old neighborhoods. Not to mention that he was probably already planning to take over and move Michael out of the picture. I am not sure about that. Aren't screenplays often substantially re-written in a very short time anyway? If you want to be sure, just read one of the reference books about the films; Harlan Lebo's The Godfather Legacy or The Godfather Book by Peter Cowie.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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