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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#623989
12/10/11 03:42 PM
12/10/11 03:42 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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I'm talking about today's mafia. There's no way an American is going into Canada today and successfully taking over in the long term. And in their minds, Montagna was an American. And now he's dead.
I agree with you that Montagna probably tried to take over, he just wasn't very successful in the long term. But in the short term he did make some noise. With the right support anything is possible. Montagna tried too much too quick. He acted like an agressor, and with doing so you make enemies. Forming alliegiances with Ontario families doesn't make you a boss in Montreal. But obviously there wasn't much resistance to taking out the Rizzuto leadership. I think Montagna and the Violi brothers organized the Rizzuto killings while Montreal mafiosi stayed on the sideline. After the killings Montagna tried to establish a new leadership. He probably felt secure enough to go to a meeting unarmed and without a bodyguard.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#623990
12/10/11 03:43 PM
12/10/11 03:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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He probably felt secure enough to go to a meeting unarmed and without a bodyguard. Big mistake . Old Genco never would have let him go!
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: eurodave]
#623992
12/10/11 03:47 PM
12/10/11 03:47 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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People got fed up of the Rizzuto hegemony and there was a coalition of sorts to get rid of them. No more Sicilian domination in Montreal. They will have to share the pie with others now. I'm getting a little confused now about you're opinion on this matter, Dave. Over at the real deal forum you agree that this has nothing to do anymore with ethnicities. And it was you who said that the new boss was going to be a Sicilian.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#623994
12/10/11 03:49 PM
12/10/11 03:49 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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He probably felt secure enough to go to a meeting unarmed and without a bodyguard. Big mistake . Old Genco never would have let him go! Yes, but how come that he felt secure enough? That says something. And the guy obviously wasn't stupid.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#624001
12/10/11 04:17 PM
12/10/11 04:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Yes, but how come that he felt secure enough? I don't know, Sonny. But he was obviously mistaken in feeling that way.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#624002
12/10/11 04:18 PM
12/10/11 04:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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People got fed up of the Rizzuto hegemony and there was a coalition of sorts to get rid of them. No more Sicilian domination in Montreal. They will have to share the pie with others now. I'm getting a little confused now about you're opinion on this matter, Dave. Over at the real deal forum you agree that this has nothing to do anymore with ethnicities. And it was you who said that the new boss was going to be a Sicilian. It's all about the money.........but in the end, the Rizzutos and close family members ate very well without getting their hands dirty. They became too good for the streets and lived a life of luxury, nice cars, legitimate businesses etc......greedy and comfortable. It's time for new players and the Montreal mafia scene will be more diverse than it once was where Sicilians dominated top-to-bottom. At the end of the day, everybody wants a piece of the pie.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: Tonymtl]
#624003
12/10/11 04:20 PM
12/10/11 04:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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I could tell you that if its quiet in Montreal for the next 6 months then we know that Vito is back in action. All lot of quys are waiting on the sidelines to see what happens when he gets out. He still has many loyalists waiting for him. Hamilton/Toronto guys are probably trying to figure out how to get knew players to take control of Montreal. Sal didn't work out and many don't want the heat. Know this, many big guys in Montreal ate very well with Vito. Its gonna take the outsiders a lot to turn things around. Sal was an outsider and very eager for money and power as he had a knew life to earn in new territory. Vito and his triumphant return? Highly unlikely when he comes out and if he settles back in Montreal, he will be watched like a hawk by law enforcement here. Old man Nick barely left his home. The Rizzutos are overplayed, over-extended, old news and done. Time for new players.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: eurodave]
#624005
12/10/11 04:21 PM
12/10/11 04:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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It's all about the money.........but in the end, the Rizzutos and close family members ate very well without getting their hands dirty. They became too good for the streets and lived a life of luxury, nice cars, legitimate businesses etc......greedy and comfortable. Sounds a lot like the resentment that Paul Castellano's subordinates had for him here in New York.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#624006
12/10/11 04:25 PM
12/10/11 04:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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It's all about the money.........but in the end, the Rizzutos and close family members ate very well without getting their hands dirty. They became too good for the streets and lived a life of luxury, nice cars, legitimate businesses etc......greedy and comfortable. Sounds a lot like the resentment that Paul Castellano's subordinates had for him here in New York. Compare, You should see the homes these people live in. Google mafia-row or mafia street in Montreal and that will give you an idea of how the lived, as compared to many others. They sent their kids to the best private schools, some became lawyers, they had investments all over the city and country, the donated money etc... The Rizzuto regime somewhat resembles that of Castellano. It doesn't matter how rich or how well you try to pretend to be legal and a legitimate business man because at the end of the day, these scumbags make money by taking of advantage of societies weakest. Eat or be eaten right?
Last edited by eurodave; 12/10/11 04:27 PM.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: eurodave]
#624007
12/10/11 04:29 PM
12/10/11 04:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Eat or be eaten right? Or, when you eat alone you die alone. Six on one hand, half-a-dozen on the other .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: eurodave]
#624008
12/10/11 04:35 PM
12/10/11 04:35 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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It's all about the money.........but in the end, the Rizzutos and close family members ate very well without getting their hands dirty. They became too good for the streets and lived a life of luxury, nice cars, legitimate businesses etc......greedy and comfortable.
It's time for new players and the Montreal mafia scene will be more diverse than it once was where Sicilians dominated top-to-bottom. At the end of the day, everybody wants a piece of the pie. You answer like a politician. But do you still think the new boss is going to be a Sicilian? Based on what you state about the Rizzutos being too good for the streets, I think this would also apply to someone like Di Maulo, which I why I really doubt he would be the new boss. It's been stated that he's very rich and has legitimate businesses just like the Rizzutos. Why would he risk all that? The guy is also pushing 70. Yet everyone thinks he's the new powerhouse.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#624009
12/10/11 04:39 PM
12/10/11 04:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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It's all about the money.........but in the end, the Rizzutos and close family members ate very well without getting their hands dirty. They became too good for the streets and lived a life of luxury, nice cars, legitimate businesses etc......greedy and comfortable.
It's time for new players and the Montreal mafia scene will be more diverse than it once was where Sicilians dominated top-to-bottom. At the end of the day, everybody wants a piece of the pie. You answer like a politician. But do you still think the new boss is going to be a Sicilian? Based on what you state about the Rizzutos being too good for the streets, I think this would also apply to someone like Di Maulo, which I why I think he will not be the new boss. It's been stated that he's very rich and has legitimate businesses just like the Rizzutos. Why would he risk all that? The guy is also pushing 70. Yet everyone thinks he's the new powerhouse. Both media sources and others have claimed that Di Maulo is not interested to become the new boss but rather play a more secondary role. Like you said, the guy is 70. As for the new boss, he might well be a Sicilian even though the Violi-Ontario families were mostly responsible for the Rizzuto decline. Montreal still has a large Sicilian population and therefore they need and want somebody who represents their interests. Whether that means the new boss will be a Sicilian or not remains to be seen. The Montreal mafia has always been culturally diverse but for the last 30 years the Sicilians were at the top. Things will probably be more evenly distributed in the future.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#624012
12/10/11 04:52 PM
12/10/11 04:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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It doesn't matter how rich or how well you try to pretend to be legal and a legitimate business man because at the end of the day, these scumbags make money by taking of advantage of societies weakest. And that's all anyone really needs to know about these guys. They think the average shmuck works 9-5. The average shmuck doesn't get a bullet in the head infront of his family during breakfast
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: antimafia]
#624030
12/10/11 08:52 PM
12/10/11 08:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292 NJ
carmela
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
NJ
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i think ny planned all since montagna was sent there It's worth mentioning that the Bonannos didn't "send" Sal anywhere, the United States government did. He was deported, and at that point he probably decided to make the most of it. The idea that an American was going to take over in Montreal is as ridiculous as the idea of a Canadian coming to Brooklyn or the Bronx and doing the same. Also worth mentioning is that Montagna was given the choice, somewhat atypical, to be deported either to Canada or to Italy. In many people's minds, mine included, his decision to go to Montreal in April 2009 was not part of a master plan. But once he got there, I think he got some ideas in his head. I agree with what pizzaboy said here. Also, very well said, antimafia. It's nice to see you again and always nice to read your posts.
La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: Mussolini14]
#624107
12/11/11 12:15 PM
12/11/11 12:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,572
m2w
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,572
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: m2w]
#624110
12/11/11 12:54 PM
12/11/11 12:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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it's not ridiculous since bonanno's are stronger than montreal mafia by far, no matter montreal is actually more violent that's only because the lack of anti-mafia laws in canada nothing more bonanno's in ny have 150 or more made members and they are full of zips they could easily send zips to montreal and kill whoever they want Bonnanos are busy extorting hot-dog vendors and getting eastern-european prostitutes, not planning to take over the Montreal mob. Sal was a zip and close to them and look where it got him.....dead. This is a Canadian thing. It's not the 50s
Last edited by eurodave; 12/11/11 12:58 PM.
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: eurodave]
#624131
12/11/11 04:01 PM
12/11/11 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,171 pittsburgh pa
phatmatress
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,171
pittsburgh pa
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it's not ridiculous since bonanno's are stronger than montreal mafia by far, no matter montreal is actually more violent that's only because the lack of anti-mafia laws in canada nothing more bonanno's in ny have 150 or more made members and they are full of zips they could easily send zips to montreal and kill whoever they want Bonnanos are busy extorting hot-dog vendors and getting eastern-european prostitutes, not planning to take over the Montreal mob. Sal was a zip and close to them and look where it got him.....dead. This is a Canadian thing. It's not the 50s i agree the bonnano's have a hard time handling things in NY let alone taking on another country. i honestly think that there will be no retaliation from them over sal.
I hate Dicknoses!!!!!!
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: phatmatress]
#624142
12/11/11 04:39 PM
12/11/11 04:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301 Canada
eurodave
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 301
Canada
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it's not ridiculous since bonanno's are stronger than montreal mafia by far, no matter montreal is actually more violent that's only because the lack of anti-mafia laws in canada nothing more bonanno's in ny have 150 or more made members and they are full of zips they could easily send zips to montreal and kill whoever they want Bonnanos are busy extorting hot-dog vendors and getting eastern-european prostitutes, not planning to take over the Montreal mob. Sal was a zip and close to them and look where it got him.....dead. This is a Canadian thing. It's not the 50s i agree the bonnano's have a hard time handling things in NY let alone taking on another country. i honestly think that there will be no retaliation from them over sal. Exactly........with all the heat from Law Enforcement these days and recent prosecutions, do you really think the Bonnanos would risk going to war with another crime family in another country when they can barely take on local matters?
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Re: Who was behins the hit on Montanga?
[Re: carmela]
#624349
12/12/11 02:49 PM
12/12/11 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,748
antimafia
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,748
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[snip] Also, very well said, antimafia. It's nice to see you again and always nice to read your posts. Nice to see you as well, carmela. Also nice to read your posts again. I perhaps should have mentioned a few other details about Montagna and his deportation: [*]He had dual citizenship (Canadian, Italian) but not American citizenship. [*]He almost received his green card several years ago. If he had received it, he would not have been deported. [*]Even back in April 2009, when he was deported -- he chose to go to Canada rather than Italy -- his lawyer was wrangling to try to have Montagna stay in the US, as this was Montagna's wish. After Montagna was deported, he still wanted to return to the US, and his lawyer continued to fight for this on Montagna's behalf till reality set in: Montagna would not be able to return. Nevertheless, I cannot give short shrift to Montagna's activities (including meetings) in Quebec and especially in Ontario once he knew that a return to the US was not in the cards. (I am especially curious as to who his contacts in Ontario were before he was deported.) While the attempted murder of Raynald Desjardins and the murders of Lorenzo Lo Presti and Montagna make clearer, for some posters, who is or was on whose side, I am still perplexed by Domenico Arcuri Jr.'s helping to introduce Montagna to Desjardins and by Lorenzo Lo Presti's association with Montagna (assuming this is true). Arcuri's and Lo Presti's respective families descend from the Rizzutos' hometown in Sicily, and I have reasons for suspecting the likelihood of Arcuris and Lo Prestis intermarrying with Rizzutos and Cammalleris, both in Montreal and Toronto. The Arcuris of Montreal and Giacinto Arcuri of Toronto (a noted mafioso in Ontario's underworld) were known to have established ties to the Bonanno Family in New York: Domenico Arcuri Sr. (Domenico Jr.'s father) and Giacinto Arcuri are related to Giuseppe Arcuri, a New York soldier in the Bonanno Family. Giuseppe, who died in 2001, co-owned a pizzeria in Long Island with Gerlando Sciascia, and according to The Sixth Family co-author Adrian Humphreys, there apparently were Montreal Mafia members who attended Giuseppe's wake. Law enforcement has speculated that Domenico Arcuri Sr. wed, many, many years ago, the niece of Nicolino Alfano, a New York Bonanno. If Montagna was representing Rizzuto-organization interests before the murder of Nick Rizzuto Sr., would Montagna have told Nick Rizzuto Sr. that the latter's reign was over? If Montagna was representing the interests of Sicilian members of the Montreal Mafia such as Domenico Arcuri Jr. and Lorenzo Lo Presti, and the latter were part of a group that was fed up with the Rizzutos' reign, then perhaps these individuals might be deemed as renegades in the Rizzuto faction -- but I have trouble understanding this. Bear in mind that Lorenzo Lo Presti grew up living next door to Vito and Nick Rizzuto Sr. Lo Presti was the one who identified his father's body at the morgue in 1992. I don't believe that, according to Sal Vitale, Gerlando Sciascia killed or arranged to kill Joe Lo Presti. I don't see Lorenzo and the Arcuris betraying Nick Sr. and Vito; however, much of the internal fighting in the Montreal Mafia in the last few years is a result of betrayals, the formation of factions, and the switching of allegiances.
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