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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#629251
01/13/12 06:19 AM
01/13/12 06:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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Greenwald column Does anyone have any doubt whatsoever that if Iran were sending hit squads to kill Israeli scientists in Tel Aviv, or was murdering a series of American scientists at Los Alamos (while wounding several of their wives, including, in one instance, shooting them in front of their child’s kindergarten), that those acts would be universally denounced as Terrorism, and the only debate would be whether the retaliation should be nuclear, carpet-bombing, or invasion? As always, Terrorism is the most meaningless — and thus most manipulated — term of propaganda; it’s always what They do and never what We do. UPDATE: There’s one point that should be added about why this matters so much: the fact that Terrorism has no fixed meaning does not mean it is inconsequential. The opposite is true. Terrorism is one of the most consequential words in our political lexicon. The term designates Supreme, Unmitigated Evil. Once someone is successfully branded a Terrorist, it means that anything and everything can and should be done to them without constraints (e.g., sure, I don’t love the idea that the President — in secret and with no due process – can target my fellow citizens for assassination, but I support its being done to Anwar Awlaki because he’s a Terrorist; I don’t like detention without trial but I can live with it as it’s being used to imprison Terrorists; it’s terrible when we slaughter children with drones but it has to be done to get the Terrorists, etc. etc.).
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#629373
01/13/12 07:52 PM
01/13/12 07:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
OP
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OP
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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Iran's Dangerous Game: Iran Doesn't Know How to Negotiate?These “signals” represent a complete misreading of what it takes to begin a negotiation with the Obama Administration. There’s a reason for that: the Iranians–not just the regime, but even the reform movement–have been isolated from the rest of the world for too long. They have no idea how to play the hand they’ve been dealt because they don’t know very much about the other players at the table.
[The Obama Administration] began its steady, successful campaign of increasing economic pressure on the regime. Through smart, patient diplomacy, it did what no one thought possible–bringing the Russians and Chinese into the sanctions regime. And now, both the Obama Administration and Europe seem ready to impose even tighter sanctions on Iran’s oil industry.
We’re at a dangerous moment right now. The Iranians need to understand in the most precise manner possible what the consequences of their various attempts at saber-rattling will be. They need to understand just exactly what sort of concessions they will have to make to get negotiations started.
http://swampland.time.com/2012/01/13/irans-dangerous-game/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+timeblogs%2Fswampland+%28TIME%3A+Swampland%29
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#629608
01/15/12 08:49 AM
01/15/12 08:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77
Mother of Dragons
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Mother of Dragons
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
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Don't f@#% with the Mossad.  I believe it's perfectly possible to suspect that Tel Aviv maybe didn't necessarily pull the trigger. Possible? Sure ofcourse. But I could say the same of Tehran's enemies like the Gulf States, America, etc. That guy was of no consequence to Iran's nuclear program. To me, looked like an inside job, to infuriate ignorant Iranians. The thing is, we're a nation who believe everything is a conspiracy. Nothing is what it seems. Still many will get angry over this, good stuff before an election that many have boycotted. It's sad to see Israel would keep quiet just to show off. 
"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#633185
02/05/12 06:41 AM
02/05/12 06:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77
Mother of Dragons
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Mother of Dragons
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
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With this recent Friday sermon by the supreme leader, seems like he wants a war.  I really don't want a war. But if there's going to be a war, one without regime change is even worse. I just don't see a war happening without regime change. People who think otherwise are kidding themselves. I happen to think we're headed where Iraq was heading. The first war was only to incapacitate Saddam, nothing more. As for Iran, since Obama would want to insist on his policy that only people of Iran should change their government (as if they could!), I think this war would only go as far as diminishing Iran's nuclear capabilities. But I really hope if there is a war, there would be a regime change. We've had it.
"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#633434
02/06/12 08:10 PM
02/06/12 08:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
OP
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OP
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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Bibi, Israel, curb your over-the-top war rhetoric toward Iran. I urge this as one who cherishes Israel and values military power. But you’ve got to understand that your constant threats to attack Iran to stop its nuclear program aren’t working. Unending military threats unite Iranians and fire up their resistance. Economic sanctions weaken and divide them—and often produce constituencies for compromise. Give sanctions time to play out. You cannot actually believe Iran will prostrate itself in the face of your threats. As Amos Yadlin, a retired Air Force general and former head of Israeli military intelligence, said Sunday: “These statements have reached the point where they have crossed the line from bringing benefit and are beginning to cause damage.” Your warnings will ignite war and will not foster Iran’s abandoning its nuclear program. Did Saddam Hussein kneel before George W. Bush’s threats? Did the Taliban handcuff itself when faced with America’s military might? Has Kim Jong-un bowed before his Western master? None capitulated even to the American superpower. Thus, it’s hard to believe that you truly calculate that Ayatollah Khamenei will cry “uncle.” The most relevant points: Third, your attacks probably will destroy most of Iran’s nuclear facilities, but these can readily be reconstructed in one to two years—deeper and less vulnerable to future attacks. (Startling, last week, your Maj. Gen. Aviv Kochavi, the chief of Israeli military intelligence, stated publicly that Iran already had enough fissile material to build four nuclear bombs in one year. If true, that’s already enough to destroy Israel. So what’s to be gained by your attack?) Let me spell out what I think President Obama is saying to you: the unprecedented economic sanctions against Iran are already hurting and will hurt a lot more over the next year. Let them bite more. Meantime, the U.S. and Israel are both underlining to Tehran that all options are on the table. (That’s not a trivial phrase from a great power.) Israeli threats won’t reinforce the pressure from the sanctions; they’ll harden Iran’s heart. And we’ll all be heading for an incredibly dangerous war.
Last edited by ronnierocketAGO; 02/06/12 08:11 PM.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#633497
02/07/12 01:00 AM
02/07/12 01:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
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Of course, I distinctly remember the same predictions 2 or 3 years ago about an Israeli attack the upcoming spring or summer. So take it for what it is. Sooner or later, though, Israel will probably have to act. i remember the same thing, i guess if it holds the same this time remains to be seen panetta is a very respected guy as was gates, this past summer i met/worked with recently retired chairman of the joint chiefs mike mullen on some stuff in dc, very honorable/stand up guy plus the pentagon was awesome if i do say so myself
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#633499
02/07/12 01:13 AM
02/07/12 01:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
OP
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OP
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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I wonder how much of this is accurate? Iran’s Middle Class on Edge as World Presses InThe rising economic panic has illustrated — and possibly intensified — the bitter divisions within Iran’s political elite. A number of insiders, including members of the elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, have begun openly criticizing Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in recent weeks. One of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s aides indirectly accused Ayatollah Khamenei of needlessly antagonizing the West in ways that pushed down the rial’s value, the latest sign of a rift between the president and the supreme leader that is helping to define the parliamentary elections, which are scheduled for March 2.
“They criticize Ahmadinejad and even the supreme leader by name now; it’s not like before,” said Javad, the 45-year-old manager of a travel agency in north Tehran.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: Dapper_Don]
#633500
02/07/12 01:31 AM
02/07/12 01:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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Of course, I distinctly remember the same predictions 2 or 3 years ago about an Israeli attack the upcoming spring or summer. So take it for what it is. Sooner or later, though, Israel will probably have to act. i remember the same thing, i guess if it holds the same this time remains to be seen panetta is a very respected guy as was gates, this past summer i met/worked with recently retired chairman of the joint chiefs mike mullen on some stuff in dc, very honorable/stand up guy plus the pentagon was awesome if i do say so myself I don't see how strategically Israel could pull off such a raid. They would have to transit the airspace of several countries which, if not prepared for them on the way in, would be prepared for them on the way out. In addition, Iran's nuclear facilities are spread over a very wide geographical area which would require quite a few attack aircraft and cover aircraft. I suppose we are talking about squadron strength. They are flying F-15s and 16s which are probably capable of defeating any thing that Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, or Iran could throw against them. But it's not 1981.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: olivant]
#633503
02/07/12 01:46 AM
02/07/12 01:46 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
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Of course, I distinctly remember the same predictions 2 or 3 years ago about an Israeli attack the upcoming spring or summer. So take it for what it is. Sooner or later, though, Israel will probably have to act. i remember the same thing, i guess if it holds the same this time remains to be seen panetta is a very respected guy as was gates, this past summer i met/worked with recently retired chairman of the joint chiefs mike mullen on some stuff in dc, very honorable/stand up guy plus the pentagon was awesome if i do say so myself I don't see how strategically Israel could pull off such a raid. They would have to transit the airspace of several countries which, if not prepared for them on the way in, would be prepared for them on the way out. In addition, Iran's nuclear facilities are spread over a very wide geographical area which would require quite a few attack aircraft and cover aircraft. I suppose we are talking about squadron strength. They are flying F-15s and 16s which are probably capable of defeating any thing that Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, or Iran could throw against them. But it's not 1981. with all the military aid/radar and satellite jamming stuff we've given the Israelis over the years im sure they can pull off such a raid across the airspace of these nations, they pulled it off against Iraq and Saddamm and Iran is just next door. plus the Saudi's hate Iran and besides Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and its King are very close US allies so all that leaves is Syria which has its own problems now the real questions is if they can get all the facilities successfully, but in reality if they managed to pull off such a feat it will just embolden Iran that much more to restart/continue with their nuclear ambitions. Also this will probably throw massive support from the Iranian people against the Israelis in turn bolstering the popularity of the Iranian government.
Last edited by Dapper_Don; 02/07/12 01:48 AM.
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#633512
02/07/12 02:40 AM
02/07/12 02:40 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77
Mother of Dragons
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Mother of Dragons
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
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I wonder how much of this is accurate? Iran’s Middle Class on Edge as World Presses InThe rising economic panic has illustrated — and possibly intensified — the bitter divisions within Iran’s political elite. A number of insiders, including members of the elite Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, have begun openly criticizing Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in recent weeks. One of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s aides indirectly accused Ayatollah Khamenei of needlessly antagonizing the West in ways that pushed down the rial’s value, the latest sign of a rift between the president and the supreme leader that is helping to define the parliamentary elections, which are scheduled for March 2.
“They criticize Ahmadinejad and even the supreme leader by name now; it’s not like before,” said Javad, the 45-year-old manager of a travel agency in north Tehran.
It's accurate. Some revolutionary guard personnel, those who served in war with Iraq have criticized Khamenei's behavior and compared it to the late Shah. Middle Class is being pushed below the poverty line, because they are the main opponents of the regime. There's massive economical panic across the nation. Dollar value is almost doubled from last April, and owning dollar bills are now a criminal offense. Everyone must give their dollars to the bank to be put into an account in their name. Since it is traditionally acceptable for people to own gold, everyone is changing their liquid Rial properties into gold coins. Last week another law was put into effect that made taking gold out of the country illegal. There is huge request for gold coins at the bank and now they are getting orders for 4-6 months later, at almost twice the value of each coin last April. In other words economy is collapsing. Sepah, being in charge of everything imported into the country, faces real trouble to bring the goods here, since the UAE has halted the banking relations with Iran. Add to all these 4 Sepah members ages between 50-52 have died under suspicious circumstances. I wonder if there would be a military coup in the making, or if the Supreme Leader could avert these problems successfully. Add to all these Syria's recent problems and taking Iranians (probably members of Sepah) hostage in Syria. What's clear is that Iranian ties with Hamas could be weakening if Assad is to go and the next in line is not exactly friendly with Iran. Things are bad here and will be getting worse. But to the point of people toppling the regime? I doubt it. When people are struggling to make ends meet, they are meeker than sheep. Unless there's a military coup and I'm not sure if the result of which would not be worse than present circumstances.
"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#635058
02/15/12 04:05 PM
02/15/12 04:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Off-topic, but brainchild Richard Dreyfuss wrote this in the Nation: "It’s worth noting that the United States and Al Qaeda are on the same side in Syria." Another self hating lefty actor who hasn't been relevant in over twenty years (if he was ever relevant to begin with). He should get together with Ellen Barkin, scream some more insane rhetoric in hopes that the attention will get them work. Newsflash, guys: It won't. It's a shame, too. I always liked Dreyfuss as an actor. "Let it Ride" is one of my favorite popcorn comedies of all time.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#635118
02/15/12 11:36 PM
02/15/12 11:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Iran trumpets nuclear advances, deepening standoff with West
By Parisa Hafezi | Reuters
February 15, 2012TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran proclaimed advances in nuclear know-how on Wednesday, including new centrifuges able to enrich uranium much faster, a move that may hasten a drift towards confrontation with the West over suspicions it is seeking the means to make atomic bombs. Tehran's resolve to pursue a nuclear program showed no sign of wavering despite Western sanctions inflicting increasing damage on its oil-based economy. "The era of bullying nations has passed. The arrogant powers cannot monopolize nuclear technology. They tried to prevent us by issuing sanctions and resolutions but failed," President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said in a live television broadcast. "Our nuclear path will continue." However, Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam television said the government had handed a letter to EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton expressing readiness to "hold new talks over its nuclear program in a constructive way." An Ashton spokeswoman confirmed receipt of the letter, saying she was evaluating it and would consult with the United States, Russia, China and other partners among the big powers. Iran has long refused to negotiate curbs on its nuclear program, saying it is intended to produce electricity for booming domestic demand and for other civilian uses. The United States and Israel have not ruled out military action against Iran if diplomacy and sanctions fail. Washington however played down Iran's latest announcement, saying its reported advances were "not terribly new and not terribly impressive." "We frankly don't see a lot new here. This is not big news. In fact it seems to have been hyped," a State Department spokeswoman said. IRAN DENIES BANNING OIL EXPORTS TO EU Iran's Oil Ministry denied a state media report that it had cut off oil exports to six European Union states. "We deny this report ... If such a decision is made, it will be announced by Iran's Supreme National Security Council," a spokesman for the ministry told Reuters. Iran's English language Press TV said Tehran had halted oil deliveries to France, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Netherlands and Spain -- its biggest EU customers -- in retaliation for an EU ban on Iranian crude due to take effect in July. The Islamic Republic is the world's No. 5 oil exporter, with 2.6 million barrels going abroad daily, and the EU consumes around a fifth of those volumes. With Western sanctions now spreading to block Iran's oil exports and central bank financing of trade, Tehran has been resorting to barter to import staples like rice, cooking oil and tea, commodities traders say. The most recent talks between world powers and Iran failed in January 2011 because of Tehran's unwillingness to discuss transparent limits on enrichment, as demanded by several U.N. Security Council resolutions passed since 2006. http://news.yahoo.com/iran-trumpets-atom-advances-deepening-standoff-west-121448512.html
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: War with Iran?
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#635712
02/20/12 06:18 AM
02/20/12 06:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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March to War As a journalist, there’s a buzz you can detect once the normal restraints in your business have been loosened, a smell of fresh chum in the waters, urging us down the road to war. Many years removed from the Iraq disaster, that smell is back, this time with Iran.
You can just feel it: many of the same newspapers and TV stations we saw leading the charge in the Bush years have gone back to the attic and are dusting off their war pom-poms. CNN’s house blockhead, the Goldman-trained ex-finance professional Erin Burnett, came out with a doozie of a broadcast yesterday, a Rumsfeldian jeremiad against the Iranian threat would have fit beautifully in the Saddam’s-sending-drones-at-New-York halcyon days of late 2002.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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