This was not cut for lack of sources...it was written by George Anastasia. It was temporarily removed because someone the article makes reference to is alledging its liable.

I like your style AmericanCrime. Very intelligent and professional and I also thank you for providing sources of information! I hope the rest on this thread can tone down the speculative nonsense.

I dont get why people are making the assumption that the members of any possible Irish group are restricted to "irish neighborhoods" and "irish rackets". Im sure they do business with all different types of people wherever they can.

Wow...this one is way off.

what is the nonsense that five felonies writes based on?

Smurph, I don´t know what you are talking about!
No Irish guy cen ever be made into Cosa Nostra. Don´t you know the rules? What makes you believe Irish guys held capo positions within the Italian Mafia?
No informants have ever mentioned this. Neither has the FBI or any other police enforcment. So where did you get this from?
And one more thing, please use the quote boxes when repllying to posts. Easier to understand what you are talking about, even if it´s rubbish.

I think it's safe to say Smurph is a bullshit artist of the highest order. And it's probably intentional. Nobody can be that clueless. He's looking for attention so just ignore him.

I never said any Irish guy was made. What I said was that there are a lot of ranking members of the mafia who have never been made.

But while on the subject, upon what information are you basing your statement?

Im not a bs artist Ivy League...test me. Ask me something. I never insulted you and you never answered my question. Upon what reliable information are you basing anything you say?

You are being an absolutist and one that is completely wrong. Call the FBI's media department and ask them. Or watch this documentary or many many others that detail the close working relationship between Irish and italians.

Have you ever heard of Henry Hill? Danny Greene? Whitey Bulger? Patrick Nee? Kevin Weeks? The Westies?

One of many many many references on the internet about non-Italians being "made". John Gotti wasnt even a full blooded Italian. Wow you guys are off.

Made man
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Made man (disambiguation).
It has been suggested that American Mafia induction rituals be merged into this article or section. (Discuss) Proposed since January 2012.

A made man, also known as a made guy, man of honor, or Mafioso (plural: Mafiosi), is someone who has been officially inducted into the Sicilian or American Mafia (Cosa Nostra). They may also be referred to by some as a goodfella or wiseguy. However, that would be inexact, as those terms can also be used in reference to non-made members.[citation needed]
Contents
[hide]

1 Overview
2 Induction ceremony
3 Privileges
4 Footnotes
5 References

[edit] Overview

Traditionally, in order to become a made member of the Mafia, the inductee had to be a male of full Southern Italian (preferably Sicilian) descent. Today, it is believed that this requirement has been loosened so that males of half Italian descent through their father's line can also be inducted. Other sources say that a half-Italian through his mother's line can also be acceptable if he has an Italian surname.[1] Because many third and fourth generation Italian Americans have non-Italian ancestry (due to the mixing of ethnic groups commonplace in the United States), having an Italian surname seems to have become the prerequisite for Mafia membership.

Some examples of made members who are not of full Italian descent include John A. Gotti, whose mother was of Russian descent, and "Cadillac" Frank Salemme, former boss of the Patriarca family in Providence, Rhode Island, who was half Irish.

An associate of a crime family who was in the police force or attended a police academy cannot become a made member of the mafia.[citation needed] For example, DeMeo crew member Henry Borelli could never become a made man in the Gambino family, since he had taken the New York City Police Department entrance exam in the early 1970s,[citation needed] and Bonanno underboss Salvatore Vitale was only made because his brother-in-law and future boss Joseph Massino covered up his previous work as a corrections officer.[2] However, an exception to this rule includes Scarfo crime family capo Ron Previte, who was a former member of the Philadelphia police force.[3]

Before being inducted, a potential made man is required to carry out a contract killing; any murders committed for personal reasons "do not count" in this respect.[4] Committing one's first contracted killing is referred to as "making your bones."[4] Until the 1980s, one only had to be involved in a murder (such as driving the getaway car) in order to fulfill the requirements. It was not until the Donnie Brasco trials, which revealed that the Mafia was about to make undercover FBI agent Joe Pistone, that a rule was made that potential inductees must actually perform a killing.

When introducing one made man to another, the phrase "a friend of ours"[5] is used, indicating that he is a member and business can be discussed openly with him. If the person being introduced is an associate or civilian to whom business should not be mentioned, the phrase "a friend of mine" is used instead. Made men are the only ones who can rise through the ranks of Cosa Nostra, from soldier to caporegime ("capo" for short), "consigliere," "underboss" and "boss".

1. Everyone knows the mob has associates of various ethnic backgrounds, including Irish. These associates hold various levels of influence and clout. But a non-Italian can never be "made," i.e. formally inducted into an LCN family; much less attain the rank of capo. That's Mafia 101 stuff right there.

2. Nobody said a 100% Italian blood requirement has always been enforced across the board, though it may have been in the past to a large extent. But there has never been a member who did not have some Italian blood.

3. The partnership between the Gambino family and the Westies is ancient history. Hell, the Westies themselves are ancient history. And even when the Westies were working for the Gambinos, Jimmy Coonan was not a member or capo. They simply got to use the Gambino name in their rackets and, in return, paid 10% tribute.

4. John Stanfa and Joseph Ligambi are both "made" members of the Philadelphia LCN. Ralph Natale was a "made" member before he flipped. Law enforcement says so. Other former Philadelphia LCN members say so. George Anastasia says so.

My only question for you is, have you taken your medication today?



Better sources than Wikipedia.

Here is about the Westies and Gambino agreement. Do some more research and you will find that the FBI considered Mickey Featherstone to be a Gambino capo. He ran an all Irish crew a.k.a. "The Westies". As with any other crew, they were free to use the bosses name in exchange for 10-15% of the crew's earnings. Featherstone was charged under RICO with other Gambino captains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=usbBYK14w6s

SO I ASK AGAIN, UPON WHAT ARE YOU BASING WHAT YOU SAY? I THINK THE READERS OF THE FORUM CAN DECIDE WHO HAS JUICE AND WHO IS FULL OF HOT AIR.

Yes, they can.

maybe if you make ten posts in a row people will start taking you more seriously around here ivy
on a more serious note, sc please axe this jokester asap!

I think what Smurph was trying to get across is that there has ben associates whom have achieved a level of power, influence and clout that rivals the "real capos". Sort of functioning as unofficial wings of a LCN family. It's a matter of semantics. Obviously, not everyone in law enforcement (especially at that time) was aware of the nuances of the LCN. Which is the reason in some reports. Generic terms like lieutenant, kingpin get thrown around (the media is guilty of this as wel). I don't find it impossible, that on one of these reports someone might have suggested a very influential Irish gangster with deep ties to Bruno as a "capo".

We know that the standard to be made is to have some Italian blood on your father's side. Rules have been getting less and less stringent these days. Don't think Smurph ever suggested persons of non-Italian ancestry were ever made. Only that non-Italians associates over the years have achieved a status that superseded a made man or a traditional capo, in terms of influence.

Why is it so impossible to believe, that a character like Shundler has forged a bond so strong with the top guys in Genovese, that media or LEO can mis attribute him as an Irish "captain", due to his close ties with the Italians and possible his own muscle.

LCN is a money making machine. And everyone is invited to partake in the spoils. As long as the family get an extra slice working with you, I'm sure being made only matters to the Italian cugines street guys who want to move up and the times when the cultural protocols that go along with made guy status (Which these days aren't like they used to be so anyway) has to be enforced.

Smurph's apparently from Philly. And I'll take that information at face value over any doubts that a non-local would have due to posturing and debating wording on rank terms. To get back on topic: All signs point to these guys being very real and involved in OC and working alongside the Italians.

good post, but dont try to stick up for the guy. there are ways to make a point without being a jerk. any knowledge the guy might have isnt gonna be taken seriously acting irrational. by the way. this is probably my favorite thread, so job well done sir!

Well, call it semantics if you want, but he should know that him labeling a guy the the "capo" of a family's Irish wing or whatever is going to raise eyebrows. Everyone is familiar with Joe Watts, for instance, who some said would have been a capo had he been Italian. But nobody is actually saying he is a capo or has capo-status.

Some of the pictures here , are so spooky and tough, my heart Dixie, but will say ! And you can take this to the fucken bank ! There are alot of idiots in the world ! And belong to a ah Wannabe Tribe , or such in life and they are nothing ! Unh said

Iw asn't particularly sticking up for Smurph. I agree he coulda used more tact. But it seems alot of people here or so quick to dismiss these guys, as mere myths or as inventions of a daydreamer. So it's kind of frustrating to hear all teh negative comments. But anyways, I'm just looking for the truth really. There seems to be something beneath the surface.

Some research demonstrates that many former and current mafia "made men" and non-made men who are less than half italian ross to ranking positions:

TO START WITH, FIVE OF THE ORIGINAL LA COSA NOSTRA MEN TO BE MADE AND WHO SERVED ON THE COMMISSION WERE JEWISH!! THEY HELPED TO FORMALIZE AND DETERMINE ONE RITUAL TO BE USED IN MAKING MEN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. THEIR NAMES WERE MEYER LANSKY, BUGSY SIEGEL, LOUIS BUCHALTER, DUTCH SCHULTZ AND ABNER ZWELLMAN. TIMOTHY MURPHY AN IRISH MEN ALSO SERVED ON THE COMMISSION.

1) RUBY STEIN (JEWISH-MADE GAMBINO SOLDIER)
2) CHRIS DEMEO (JEWISH...CHANGED NAME FROM ROSENBURG...SOLDIER IN ROY DEMEO'S CREW...ASSUMED HIS SURNAME IN ORDER TO BE MADE)
3) JOHN GOTTI (LESS THAN HALF)
4) JOHN GOTTI, JR. (LESS THAN 1/3)
5) Ron Previto (Bruno family turncoat. Former cop. Greek, Albanian and Italian. Capo in charge of Atlantic City Rackets)
6) Anthony Rabbio (Less than 1/2 - Bonnano Consig
7) Tino Fiumura (Current Genovesse Street Boss - almost all Irish and Greek)
8) Carmine Persico (Jailes Columbo Boss - Less than 1/2)
9) Alphonse Persico (Was acting Columbo Boss when brother Carmine went to jail. Now also incarcerated)
10) Benjamin Franz (Current Columbo Underboss - German and Scottish)
11) Ralph Perna (Luchese NJ Boss - Assumed His Old Boss Johnathan Perna's last name to be made)
12) Daniel "The Lion" Leo (Soon to Be Released Former Genovesse Boss. Mostly Albanian)
13) Peter Gotti (former Gambino boss - less than 1/2)
14) Jonathan Barbato (Genovess Capo who's father allegedly changed their last name from Feldman)
15) Patsy Papello (Genovese Capo - Mostly Irish)
16) Matty Ianello (Genovese Capo - about 1/2)
17) Frank Gagi (Gambino Capo - <.5)
18) Steven Crea (Luchese Boss) - Half Ukranian)

Further, there were recently interviews with Dominick Cirillo formerly a made soldier in the Roy Demeo crew; Ron Previto (less than half, former cop, Capo and head of NJ Operations for Bruno family) and Phil Leonetti (former Nick Scarfo underboss).

THEY ALL SAY THAT THE RULES ARE ALL CHANGED NOW. THE COMMISSION DOESNT MEET, FAMILIES ARE RUN INCREASINGLY BY GOVERNING PANELS, TOP EARNERS DO NOT WANT TO BE "MADE" OR RECEIVE POSITIONS OF TITLE FOR FEAR OF PROSECUTION. THEY ALSO ALL STATE THAT THE MOPB FAMILIES ARE ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY AND STRUCTURE THEMSELVES ACCORDINGLY.

THEY SAID THE RULE IN THE LATE EIGHTIES AND NINETIES WAS THAT YOU COULD BE MADE EVEN IF NOT ITALIAN IF YOU CHANGED YOUR SURNAME. TODAY THEY SAY ANYONE WHO IS WHITE, A TOP EARNER AND A GOOD MANAGER CAN BECOME A CAPO OR EVEN ULTIMATELY A BOSS AND FREQUENTLY DO. MOST ARE NOT NECCESARILY MADE BUT SOME ARE.

DOMINICK CIRILLO STATES THAT THE GAMBINO FAMILY STOPPED A FORMAL CEREMONY FOR MADE MEN AFTER A LIST OF RECENTLY MADE MEMBERS OF THAT FAMILY WAS FOUND BY DETECTIVES IN JOHN GOTTI, JR.'S BASEMENT.

WITH REFERENCE TO THE GENOVESSE FAMILY IN PARTICULAR CIRILLO STATED THAT THEY CARE LEAST AMONG FAMILIES ABOUT A PERSONS HERITAGE AND MOST ABOUT THEIR COMPETENCE. HE STATES THAT THAT IS WHY THEY ARE FARING BETTER THAN OTHER FAMILIES AND ARE CONSIDERED THE ROLLS ROYCE OF LA COSA NOSTRA FAMILIES.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but i have spent my whole life in these neighborhoods and have seen with my own eyes how drastically things have changed.

I guess I get aggravated when people who havent lived in the enviornment stick to old rules or rules that never were but were presented as such in movies.

Im just encouraging everyone to look at the mob as an evolving and changing organization. The only way an organization like La Cosa Nostra has been able to prevail in such an enormously diverse and transient city is by evolving with the times.

Smurph,

I think you fail to distinguish the made guys with the none made guys. For example, Rudy Stein was not a made guy, but an associate with the mob. Sorry, but your list is terribly wrong. And it seems that your claims are simply made up. Who are some of the guys you mentioned? Frank Gagi, Anthony Rabbio, Benjamin Franz???
To my knowledge, Dom Cirillo has never said the things you claim he has. To whom did he say that?
I find it hard to take you seriously unless you name your sources properly.

Chris Rosenburg was definitely not a Gambino made member. How the hell do these idiots come up with this?

That's just it. Smurph doesn't even have a good grasp of the basics. Who's going to listen to him on anything else?

Some sources erroneously refer to Roy DeMeo as a capo. I heard a few commentaries making this statement. Mostly cause he had the support of what I like to call and "Associate crew" Rosenberg ands several others were never made fromt eh DeMeo crew. But after hearing DeMeo as a captain one might assume his associates were inf act made. Which was definitely not the case. DeMeo basically had to beg for his button in the firstplace. That's all I can say about that.

Anyways, if we can get back on topic. On an interesting note I found yet another person trying to edit the K&A wiki page. Some interesting tidbits. This is Basically what they came to say.

Just to be clear I did not write this. I'm merely reporting it. I did however, do spelling fixes, and rearranged grammar and other things to make the info more presentable. Sure, if you were truly interested you can goto wikipedia and see the edit. It was made by a unique IP adress (which is something I first check to see if it's the work of one person saying the same shit)

Basically I'm going to take a no comment at this point. Dunno what to make of it. Seems to be a compact rehash of old information with some new insight into the -story- of Ed Harding and the IRB group. WHich Shundler has proudly advertised publically.

As for membership and extent of influence this guy claims, I'm starting to wonder if this is a legitimate Irish-American organized crime group or perhaps something more politically motivated. Like some kind of North American branch of the larger Irish Republican political movement, and is therefore mis identified (As most paramilitary groups do engage in criminally minded funding means).

K&A clearly did start out as a burglary ring in the 60s but by the end of John Berkery's reign and the 1980's Meth trafficking busts, everything becomes hazy. So it's possible what now remains could be connected to the Irish Republican movement.

Perhaps of interest, I read an article in "Mob Candy" that has quotes from Commander Izzo the head of the NYPD Organized Crime Control Bureau where he described Bradford "The German" Cox as "powerful and influential". He also admits that he has been a target of regular surveillance. He does however say that The German, as elusive as he has always been, seems to be less involved in underworld activities himself. The contributor who wrote the artile restates that The German is assumed to have some sort of executiv or advisory role in the family. Appareently he is very close to Liborio Bellomo and allegedky dates his goddaughter who he treats like a daughter as he apparently brought her over from Italy as a girl and raised her. I think this is where the Genovese link comes in.

See...this is a perfect example of what frustrates me about what you present as fact. John Stanfa was never "made". Being "made" is an American mafia tradition. Stanfa came directly from Sicily and had a very tied in network when he arrived. He immediately became Angelo Bruno's driver and advisor. He didnt need to be "made".

Ralph Natalee himself says that he "made himself". Ralph Natalee is an absolute loser. Bruno and Stanfa hated him. The way he got involved was that while serving time for his SEOOND SERIES OR NAROTICS CHARGES he met Joey Merlino who was doing a bid related to a hijacking gone bad. Natalee and Merlino became friends and made plans for when they got out. Nobody wanted Natalee to have any responsibility. His narcotics dealing kept him from ever even being considered. As it was he never excercised any real power anyway. Merlino was always the real boss and Natalee the lightning rod.

Natalee quickly caught a third set of narcotics charges and then flipped. The first boss of a commission sitting family to do so.

Natalee and Merlino were never commission approved either incidentally. Stanfa wasthe last commissioned Bruno family boss but he never really held power either because the Young Turks were at war with them and the line and rank in Philly saw the Sicilian as an interloper and sidgey.

Merlino was made. The current acting street boss Steven Mazzone never was.

Can you please cite some credible sources to support your claim? Thanks brother.

If interested in hearing more about Ralph Natalee there is a good Philly Mob Talk episode with David Schratwizer of Fox and George Anastasio of the Daily News. If you Google "Philly Mob Talk Natalee Book" it comes up under videos.

Stanfa was made in '76, Mazzone got down in '94...what the fuck are you talking about? Stanfa an advisor? He was a gopher for Bruno and Simone.

Natale was very close with Bruno in the 60s and 70s, he oversaw labor rackets in jersey for a bit, was big into meth and coke back then too.

As for the K&A, that's been over since the 80s, the northeast has a bunch of russians, polish, and mob guys but no fucking K&A...it aint 1970 anymore.