I very much agree. He made the top 100 guitarists of all time in a recent Rolling Stone issue, but I thought he was still considerably underranked still.
If I have to guess to why he's underrated, I'll chalk it up to this. If you mention Santana or Hendrix to most folks, their first thought (probably only one) is their guitars.
Mention Prince to most folks, maybe they'll mention his symbol deal or maybe his name-changing melodrama or maybe him writing "slave" on his cheek during his feud with Warner Bros., or him wearing assless chaps, or the Jehovah's Witness connection or maybe those SNL skits mocking his eccentric reputation, whatever. Point is, his guitar work would probably be very low on such a list. Plus being tied to the hip forever with 80s MTV pop, namely Michael Jackson and Madonna, does him absolutely no favors either in that department.
Originally Posted By: klydon1
There is a video of him joining Tom Petty, Jeff Lynn, Dhani Harrison in a live rendition of "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and his guitar solo is amazing.
That performance was what made me check his work out in the first place, and go blind faith buy one of his CDs from the bargain bin. I was so impressed (or mostly at least) with AROUND THE WORLD IN A DAY, I actually went back out the next day back to that same store and same bin and got another Prince record I saw buried in there earlier: PARADE. Never was the same afterwards.
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
That's a great find, Ronnie. And you're right, it will get taken down before long due to copyright issues. But I already downloaded it .
A fustrating aspect about being a Prince fan (actually there are many, as me and Lilo can lecture) is all the quality shit he's got locked up at his infamous Vault, and apparently will never release them to the world until he apparently croaks. (DREAM FACTORY says hi) I mean that '83 concert is for fans a historical document, one that a good many fan would pay a fair price to buy it remastered on DVD.
I actually understand his stance on YouTube and all that, since it is his music, and that music is copyrighted. He's perfectly in his legal right to do. It's also a regressive, self-defeating practice in this epoch of the Internet, where free wide exposure expands your fandom. Fans don't like getting sued by their idols. It's stupid. (David Bowie said it bluntly as much.)
Shame really, since it's a disservice to both his discography and artistic reputation. Because despite the fact that he's pretty obviously a jerk and too divorced from reality for several decades now, few can match him at his best. Mad props especially to anybody who can pull this shit off with heels.
~Michael who?
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#636145 02/22/1208:34 PM02/22/1208:34 PM
I very much agree. He made the top 100 guitarists of all time in a recent Rolling Stone issue, but I thought he was still considerably underranked still.
If I have to guess to why he's underrated, I'll chalk it up to this. If you mention Santana or Hendrix to most folks, their first thought (probably only one) is their guitars.
Mention Prince to most folks, maybe they'll mention his symbol deal or maybe his name-changing melodrama or maybe him writing "slave" on his cheek during his feud with Warner Bros., or him wearing assless chaps, or the Jehovah's Witness connection or maybe those SNL skits mocking his eccentric reputation, whatever. Point is, his guitar work would probably be very low on such a list. Plus being tied to the hip forever with 80s MTV pop, namely Michael Jackson and Madonna, does him absolutely no favors either in that department.
It's a lot of different things, I think. Of course any ranking is subjective, yes? I mean unless you're talking of the very best or the absolute worst, it all comes down to taste. I'm not a big country music fan. As far as country guitar I know of Chet Atkins, Jerry Reed, Lee Roy Parnell, Jerry Douglas and that's about it. So if I owned a magazine it probably wouldn't be directed at country music fans or musicians. So when someone wrote in upset because I hadn't included Clarence White or Marty Stuart on my list of greatest guitarists I'd be like WHO???
Post Beatles, what is generically referred to as rock, generally hasn't been music to dance to. Prince usually makes music you can dance to. This is often not considered "important". Again, a question of taste. Prince brought the "roll" back to rock-n-roll. There is just as much skill at driving a band, chopping a beat up 10,000 different ways and keeping a groove going as there is in playing loud legato lines. Prince CAN do both as is obvious from his earliest work -check out the twisted BB King solo on "Automatic" or "Bambi" but again a lot of the people (writers and fans) in mainstream magazines think that anything you dance to is by definition simplistic and not worth their time.
Then of course the elephants in the room, race and sex. Prince became commercially successful right around the time that racial categories in music had ossified. "Everyone" knew that blacks didn't play guitar. So who the hell was Prince? Whatever he was doing it wasn't rock. And rock was the only genre where guitar was doing anything worth listening to. I know there are people who think like this because I run into so many of them. As as mentioned his gender blending, integrated bands and hiring of open lesbians at a time when such things weren't done took attention away from his musical skills.
I can't rank him. I think he's a really good guitarist but an even better bandleader.
PS. I would like to know what effect he's using on the song "Free". Sounds like the solo is slowed down a lot. It also sounds very similar to Brian May's tone on "We Will Rock You".
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: Lilo]
#636228 02/23/1201:11 PM02/23/1201:11 PM
Very well put, Lilo. I've been a fan forever, yet I could never summarize the guy like you just did .
Thanks PB. I've been a fan since 1999 back in high school. Had to listen to that album with door closed.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: Lilo]
#636384 02/24/1211:47 AM02/24/1211:47 AM
Very well put, Lilo. I've been a fan forever, yet I could never summarize the guy like you just did .
Thanks PB. I've been a fan since 1999 back in high school. Had to listen to that album with door closed.
Oh, I get it. That's a deliberate pun about the song 1999. Because I KNOW you were out of high school by then. Now if you tell me that you were driving a Little Red Corvette at the time, I'd have to say you're full of shit .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#636428 02/24/1204:34 PM02/24/1204:34 PM
Very well put, Lilo. I've been a fan forever, yet I could never summarize the guy like you just did .
Thanks PB. I've been a fan since 1999 back in high school. Had to listen to that album with door closed.
Oh, I get it. That's a deliberate pun about the song 1999. Because I KNOW you were out of high school by then. Now if you tell me that you were driving a Little Red Corvette at the time, I'd have to say you're full of shit .
In high school I listened to 1999. In 1999 I wasn't in high school... LOL
Not so much a Little Red Corvette but a Little Red Spectrum which sad to say didn't quite have the same appeal to young ladies..
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#636513 02/25/1208:27 AM02/25/1208:27 AM
Keith Richards is the master of the compliment that's really something of an insult.
He and Page are different types of guitarists. By rock standards Richards is much better in rhythm/timing. Page though is a better arranger/producer and seems more open to various different types of music. "Ten Years Gone" and "You Can't Always get what you want" are both superb songs.
As far as Bonham, yeah he wasn't as overtly swing oriented as Watts, but I think he got a bad rap on that. He's not going to ever be mistaken for Max Roach but he did have a pretty funky sense of timing and dynamics -i.e. "Black Dog", "Out on the Tiles", "The Ocean" , the Little Richard quote at the beginning of "Rock and Roll" and so on. I can't find it now but there is a story about Stubblefield and Starks watching Bonham play and being at least somewhat impressed while Bonham was geeked that they were impressed while pretending not to notice.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: Lilo]
#636581 02/25/1204:03 PM02/25/1204:03 PM
I don't remember seeing the McCartney's "Spin It On" before. Liked it.
TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#636628 02/25/1208:29 PM02/25/1208:29 PM
We always hear so much about the best guitarist, best drummer, best band and best vocalist. But how about the greatest bassists? In your guys opinion, who are some of the best bass players past or present?
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: Mark]
#636712 02/26/1201:59 PM02/26/1201:59 PM
We always hear so much about the best guitarist, best drummer, best band and best vocalist. But how about the greatest bassists? In your guys opinion, who are some of the best bass players past or present?
For my money, and I'm no expert by any means, it's John Entwistle of the Who. I'm guessing a bass solo was virtually unheard of when he pulled it off brilliantly in My Generation.
Jack Bruce of Cream and Bootsy Collins are often mentioned among the best, and I agree. James Jamerson, who played with Marvin Gaye, gets much deserved credit too.
Paul McCartney's bass playing in the Beatles may be overshadowed by his vocals and song writing ability, but he stands firmly with the the best of the bassists. His bass playing on the Lennon tunes, Dear Prudence, Glass Onion and She's So Heavy is sublime. His bassline in another Lennon song, Come Together, may be the most iconic bassline in rock history.
Last edited by klydon1; 02/26/1202:54 PM.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: klydon1]
#636737 02/26/1204:02 PM02/26/1204:02 PM
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,675 massachusetts
Originally Posted By: klydon1
Originally Posted By: Mark
We always hear so much about the best guitarist, best drummer, best band and best vocalist. But how about the greatest bassists? In your guys opinion, who are some of the best bass players past or present?
For my money, and I'm no expert by any means, it's John Entwistle of the Who. I'm guessing a bass solo was virtually unheard of when he pulled it off brilliantly in My Generation.
Jack Bruce of Cream and Bootsy Collins are often mentioned among the best, and I agree. James Jamerson, who played with Marvin Gaye, gets much deserved credit too.
Paul McCartney's bass playing in the Beatles may be overshadowed by his vocals and song writing ability, but he stands firmly with the the best of the bassists. His bass playing on the Lennon tunes, Dear Prudence, Glass Onion and She's So Heavy is sublime. His bassline in another Lennon song, Come Together, may be the most iconic bassline in rock history.
you could also put Les Claypool in that category. His bass work on Primus' stuff is really well and he has a very distinct style of playing.
"Death is the answer to all problems. No man, no problem."
"I'd rather be hated for who i am, than loved for who i am not"
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#637311 02/28/1203:16 PM02/28/1203:16 PM
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,474 No. Virginia
Here's a Slate article that sort-of reviews McCartneys new album. The reviewer does not seem to love collections of standards put together by old rockers:
21 outsells Bad in UK all time greatest selling albums charts
Quote:
Adele’s second album, 21, smashed the 4 million sales barrier after her BRITs performance last week and went on to bag the Number 1 spot on the Official Albums Chart for its 21st non-consecutive week at the summit. It has now sold nearly 61,000 more copies than The King Of Pop’s classic 1987 album, Bad.
Released on January 24, 2011, 21 has spent 57 weeks on the Official Albums Chart and has never left the Top 10. In just over a year it has sold over 4,020,000 copies, making it not only the biggest selling album of the 21st Century, but also the eighth biggest selling album of all time. If 21’s post-BRITs momentum continues, in the next few weeks it could also eclipse sales of Pink Floyd’s 1973 album Dark Side Of the Moon (7) and Dire Straits’ 1985 album, Brothers In Arms (6).
The Official Charts’ Top 10 biggest selling albums of all time are as follows:
01 GREATEST HITS – QUEEN (5,863,000) 02 SGT PEPPER'S LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND – THE BEATLES (5,044,000) 03 GOLD: GREATEST HITS – ABBA (4,989,000) 04 WHAT'S THE STORY MORNING GLORY – OASIS (4,517,000) 05 THRILLER - MICHAEL JACKSON (4,248,000) 06 BROTHERS IN ARMS - DIRE STRAITS (4,152,000) 07 THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON - PINK FLOYD (4,114,000) 08 21 – ADELE (4,020,000) 09 BAD - MICHAEL JACKSON (3,959,000) 10 GREATEST HITS II – QUEEN (3,887,000)
She's a talent but that album is very depressing and is over hyped. It shouldn't be anywhere near the top 10 in my opinion..
The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers. First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves. It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.
Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared
"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"
"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#637605 03/01/1201:14 AM03/01/1201:14 AM
This week, the late Whitney Houston becomes the first woman to place three albums in the top 10 of the Billboard 200 chart at the same time.
"Whitney: the Greatest Hits" holds at No. 2 with 174,000 (down less than 1% according to Nielsen SoundScan), "The Bodyguard" soundtrack jumps 38-6 (47,000; up 176%) and "Whitney Houston" motors 37-9 (30,000; up 72%).
I guess all the NJ/NY doo wop fans should make a beeline to this place to pick up stuff before it's all gone. Ronnie I's Doo Wop Store closing
Quote:
A Doo-Wop Shop Prepares to Close, Signaling the End of a Fading Genre By PETER APPLEBOME CLIFTON, N.J. — The end is near for Ronnie I’s Clifton Music after 40 years on Main Avenue — yet another victim of the Internet, the economy, and changing tastes in music and shopping.
But this time it is not just a store that is dying, four years after its founder did, but perhaps a whole genre of music as well. For the aging fans of the group harmony of the Harptones and the Heartbeats, the Orioles and the Ravens, the Five Keys and the Five Satins, the passing of Clifton Music is a reminder that rock ’n’ roll may never die, but one hyperbolic sect, the fading kingdom of doo-wop, just might.
In a world where fans and the remaining performers are almost invariably in their 60s and 70s, or older, no one did more to keep it alive than Ronnie Italiano, a beverage company delivery man turned doo-wop dynamo. He ran the store, which carried only doo-wop, and put out around 150 CDs, either compilations or originals he produced and recorded, and at least 50 LPs and more than 100 45s. He formed an organization, the United in Group Harmony Association, with 2,000 members at its peak, that became the community square for fans and put on 354 monthly doo-wop shows.
His efforts, and those of others, will provide a permanent historical record, whether on dusty liner notes or on YouTube videos, that augments iconic songs like “Rama Lama Ding Dong” by the Edsels or “In the Still of the Night” by the Five Satins. But fans and collectors say that as a business, a living tradition and a part of American entertainment, doo-wop seems destined to go the way of Clifton Music.
“This music is going when we do,” said Val Shively, owner of R & B Records in Upper Darby, Pa., who is considered the leading doo-wop collector. “Everyone is old or dying, and no one new is coming up to replace them. If it has 10 years left, that’s a lot in my opinion.”
Fellow fans say Mr. Italiano’s biggest achievement may have been to bring back aging groups — the Four Fellows, Lillian Leach and the Mellows, the Solitaires — for a final curtain call, with nearly all of the 354 shows recorded on VHS tapes and DVDs.
But Mr. Italiano died of cancer at age 67 in 2008, the group harmony organization died with him, and his widow, Sandra, after struggling to keep the store going, has sold it to someone who wants to sell eyeglasses there. Clifton Music, with its faded green linoleum, its colored wax 45s and 33s hanging from the pressed-tin ceiling, the old Don Mattingly poster and Ronnie I’s silver and turquoise show jackets hanging in the rear, is scheduled to close sometime this month.
“There’s no replacement for Ronnie I; everyone knows that,” Ms. Italiano said. “So I’m sad because this is Ronnie’s legacy, but I’m relieved to have the financial burden off my shoulders.”
A product of urban life and street-corner singers, white and black, the music boomed in the 1950s and early ’60s. About 200 to 300 45s were released every week from 1955 to 1962....
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: Lilo]
#638005 03/03/1202:03 PM03/03/1202:03 PM
This one is another great impersonation by Jimmy Fallon. This time he's Neil Young singing with Bruce Springsteen who comes in on the second verse dressed like his Born In The USA days. Very funny.
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
Well from eBay I finally got a Prince album I've been meaning to get for awhile: The Black Album.
Originally planned for release in 1988, half a million Vinyl LPs were pressed before Warner Bros. recalled them all a week before release. The legend goes that Prince demanded the recall because God told him the record was too evil, a vision which came to him allegedly after popping ectasy. It was finally officially limited released in 1994, after being heavily bootlegged and even published reviews by the critics. Prince would quickly record a new album (Lovesexy) to fill up his vacated '88 release slot. (Both albums incidentally included the cut "When 2 R in Love.")
Without evidence, I'm more certain the truth was alot more mundane. BA is alot more a total party record, quite arguably his most danceable record from the 80s, definately his most R&B-oriented effort since Prince in the late 70s. A damn good record in that regard.
It's like when he was producing "Housequake" for Sign O The Times and thought well shit, why don't I go produce a whole record like this? A total logical progression from SOTT.
And that in itself is why I wonder it got shelved. the rock/funk mainstream-friendly hybrid that Prince had been producing for several years beforehand. The Black Album would've been released with a total Spinal Tap-friendly black cover with no track information or any info on the spine that would tell you what this is or who produced it. No plans for singles either. But the album title is very appropriate, because I wonder if someone at W.B. (and later Prince agreed) thought that with Prince having made good money from his mainstream rock/funk fusion music, maybe the BA was too R&B or worse, "too black" for his white casual fans? I can picture them thinking it.
A real shame honestly if they thought that, because he might've screwed himself for looking backwards instead of forwards. Lovesexy is a decent record, but it's nowhere as musically concise or packed as the BA. (Plus BA didn't have that hideous nude cover which raped countless eyes.) Maybe BA wouldn't have sold well immediately as his previous records, but I'm certain it would've had a good shelf life and the critics would've loved it. (One forgets that while never a single, "Housequake" was a hit on radio.) Prince definately would've shocked people with the BA album cut "Bob George," which now comes off as quaint, but for 1988 his dark tale of a murdering cursing pimp would've raised a few eyebrows.
My favorite BA track might actually be "Superfunkycalifragisexy," but I can't find a clear version of it on YT.
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#639245 03/10/1211:53 AM03/10/1211:53 AM
Does anybody actually care about Britney anymore, she is so late 90's. Good too she she has sorted her life out though after a rough few years..
The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers. First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves. It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.
Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared
"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"
"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: Random Music News/Musings/Debates Thread
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#639382 03/11/1209:32 AM03/11/1209:32 AM
Rarest Beatles U.S. single in existence to be auctioned
The Beatles (Tony Sheridan and the Beat Brothers) “My Bonnie”/“The Saints” 45 (Decca 31382, 1962), the top offering of the many Beatles-related lots in the auction, is the rarest of the US Beatles singles, even rarer than the pink label promo version of the same record.
“It went nowhere when it was released,” said Barret, “and most of the few copies pressed were trashed, which explains why the promo copies actually outnumber the stock commercial version. As years passed and collectors became historians, the release attained more and more stature as an extreme rarity. There are likely only 20 to 25 copies of this in existence and we’ve never seen on better.”
Just heard on the radio that Blender Magazine ranked "We Built This City" by Starship as the worst song ever made.
Worst song ever made? I actually don't mind the song.
Doing a quick check on the topic, I noticed one that always always got mocked...."Feelings". LOL Never cared for it and don't know if it was overplayed or what, but at one time everyone rolled their eyes at this song.
Nah, there's many worst songs IMHO. Good idea for a thread tho. Somebody's worst song may be another person's favorite.
TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK